SPL Discussion Thread

[Bottle of Tonic]

2008 Season

I saw the Rangers vs Falkirk game. Latter played the better football but Gers sneaked the win. Celtic are also unconvincing (score wise anyway - didn't see the game) but I suppose the usual Old Firm dominance again. Is there any league in the world as predictable as this?

Outside of celtic and rangers, the league is anything but predictable.
08/09
celtic
rangers
hearts
motherwell
dundee utd
falkirk
kilmarnock
aberdeen
hamilton
hibs
inverness
st mirren

Thats a bit too predictable though so that won't be it

[Junior]

there was a stat going about there a few seasons ago that showed if you exlcuded the Celtic and Rangers results from the previous 10 seasons there would have been 7 or 8 different champions on those years.

[OwlsFan]

there was a stat going about there a few seasons ago that showed if you exlcuded the Celtic and Rangers results from the previous 10 seasons there would have been 7 or 8 different champions on those years.

So 3rd place is up for grabs That must really excite all the fans of the other teams.

[Junior]

So 3rd place is up for grabs That must really excite all the fans of the other teams.

If thats your rationale for excitement its no different than all the EPL clubs (bar Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal) battling it out for 4th spot year after year

[OwlsFan]

If thats your rationale for excitement its no different than all the EPL clubs (bar Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal) battling it out for 4th spot year after year

Not quite true. In Scotland it's been a 2 horse race since the year dot, although Aberdeen had a year or two in the sun I remember a moon or two ago. Many teams have won the English league over the years (I remember Leeds, Everton, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea off the top of my head) but in the current cycle it's Man U and Chelsea on top.

[geysir]

Nobody ever remembers Blackburn.

[Junior]

Not quite true. In Scotland it's been a 2 horse race since the year dot, although Aberdeen had a year or two in the sun I remember a moon or two ago. Many teams have won the English league over the years (I remember Leeds, Everton, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea off the top of my head) but in the current cycle it's Man U and Chelsea on top.

Aberdeen and Dundee United in the 80's.

During the 80s and 90's more often than not Aberdeen,Hearts and even Motherwell on one occasion finished in 2nd spot. Celtic didnt finish in the top 2 from 1989-1995.

Dont get me wrong Im not trying to suggest the SPL is a great competitive league and yes Rangers followed by Celtic have more titles than all the other teams combined but Im just saying the EPL is certainly no different in terms of how many teams are really challenging for the title other than it has twice as many teams that should be challenging and arent. Throwing in a few token league wins for Villa, Leeds and Everton doesnt really change that.

Since the EPL was formed titles are split as follows

Man U 10
Arsenal 3
Chelsea 2
Blackburn 1 (just for you geysir!)
Total 16

Prior to that obviously Liverpool and Everton had periods of domination. Im not sure I can be arsed to see do a titles table for England from year dot!!

[ciaraa]

Not quite true. In Scotland it's been a 2 horse race since the year dot, although Aberdeen had a year or two in the sun I remember a moon or two ago. Many teams have won the English league over the years (I remember Leeds, Everton, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea off the top of my head) but in the current cycle it's Man U and Chelsea on top.

here is some interesting stats on england v scotland all time leagues. makes for pretty grim reading in scotland...93 out of 111 are celtic/rangers!!

Summary 1889-2008 (109 championships)

18 Liverpool
17 Manchester United
13 Arsenal
9 Everton
7 Aston Villa
6 Sunderland
4 Newcastle United, The Wednesday/Sheffield Wednesday
3 Huddersfield Town, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Leeds United,
Blackburn Rovers, Chelsea
2 Preston North End, Portsmouth, Burnley, Tottenham Hotspur
Manchester City, Derby County
1 Sheffield United, West Bromwich Albion, Ipswich Town,
Nottingham Forest

Summary 1891-2008 (111 championships)

51 Rangers
42 Celtic
4 Heart Of Midlothian, Hibernian, Aberdeen
2 Dumbarton
1 Third Lanark, Motherwell, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Dundee United

[ciaraa]

also just for comparisons sake, here is the Ireland summary:

Summary 1921-2008

15 Shamrock Rovers

13 Shelbourne

9 Bohemians
Dundalk

7 Cork Athletic [includes United]
St. Patrick's Athletic

6 Waterford

5 Drumcondra

2 Athlone Town
Cork City
Derry City
Limerick
Sligo Rovers
St. James' Gate

1 Cork Celtic
Cork Hibernians
Dolphin
Drogheda United

[OwlsFan]

Nobody ever remembers Blackburn.

Who are you calling a "nobody" ?

Ireland - never realised the LoI was so Dublin dominated over the years, particularly since in my days of actively supporting Rovers, Waterford or Cork Hibs used to win the League and Rovers the cups.

Nice to see Wednesday with 4 league wins, last one 70+ years ago I think. Spurs only twice

Old Firm have won 83% of all titles. Third Lanark - there's a name from the distant past.

[Junior]

Old Firm have won 83% of all titles. Third Lanark - there's a name from the distant past.

Of the 111 scottish championships, 72 of them (65%) have had a non old firm side in the top two - so whilst its total dominance in terms of titles it hasnt quite always been a two horsed race

[geysir]

If that's the case Junior, then should my prediction of a Celtic Rangers top 2 finish come to pass you will remark favourably upon my punditry prowess

[Junior]

I wll indeed geysir but please dont jump the gun Hamilton Accies look the biz and are pushing for that 2nd CL spot!!

[seanfhear]

Celtic were very easy to get through today.Does Gordon Strachan know how to organise a defence.Celtic got lucky at the end of last season.It looks like Walter Smith(previously good at rangers but medicore/poor when he managed in england) has the measure of Gordon in the old firm games.I know Gordon has won three leagues in a row but he was lucky that rangers were poor for most of that time.On the other hand he has done better than Martin o neill in the champions league(okay martin had one very good season in the uefa cup).Gordon you need to tighten up that defence against rangers or we are done for in the league.

[OwlsFan]

I thought it was a poor show on many of the Celtic fans to start leaving the ground in droves after Rangers' 4th goal. Are you only supposed to support a team when it's winning? Fair play to those who hung on and we're in the middle of the song "We're the Celtic supporters..." when they were rewarded with a goal.

I have seen Celtic on the box a couple of times this season and they have been poor on each occasion.

[Plastic Paddy]

Sean - a run of seven straight wins to complete the league season hardly suggests luck. The league is decided over 38 games and the best team won, no question.

OwlsFan - it's always been the way at CP, I'm afraid. Ibrox too. Football fans leaving early is just a part of the matchday "experience". What I find hard to fathom is when fans leave early despite their team winning 4-1 (not that the devil's disciples were doing so yesterday, and who can blame them). It happens at CP often enough.

In answer to your other point, I can only hope that it's the typical slow start. I think I may be kidding myself though.

PP

[drinkfeckarse]

I thought it was a poor show on many of the Celtic fans to start leaving the ground in droves after Rangers' 4th goal. Are you only supposed to support a team when it's winning? Fair play to those who hung on and we're in the middle of the song "We're the Celtic supporters..." when they were rewarded with a goal.

Why does this rubbish get brought up whenever this happens at a football ground? People pay their money and are entitled to do what they like. What they witnessed yesterday was absolute rubbish. It's no surprise to me that some fans would not want to stick around for the final few minutes to listen to their biggest rivals gloating and singing.

But I suppose next you'll be telling me that Wednesday supporters would be there through thick and thin if they were 4-1 down at home to United?

[OwlsFan]

Why does this rubbish get brought up whenever this happens at a football ground? People pay their money and are entitled to do what they like. What they witnessed yesterday was absolute rubbish. It's no surprise to me that some fans would not want to stick around for the final few minutes to listen to their biggest rivals gloating and singing.

But I suppose next you'll be telling me that Wednesday supporters would be there through thick and thin if they were 4-1 down at home to United?

I don't think it's rubbish. I speak only for myself and not other followers/supporters/event junkies.

I was at a Wednesday game conceding 7 at home to Villa in a game and waiting until the end. I have seen Ireland thumped at home as well and wait until the end to support the team. I never view a game where MY TEAM is playing in terms of going to be entertained and walking out if they're playing badly because I am not getting my monies worth. I go to support my team for better or for worse.

If I was at a game where neither was a team I SUPPORT and it was a poor game, I would probably leave early.

You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word support or supporter. That's the end of my "rubbish".

[drinkfeckarse]

I was at a Wednesday game conceding 7 at home to Villa in a game and waiting until the end. I have seen Ireland thumped at home as well and wait until the end to support the team. I never view a game where MY TEAM is playing in terms of going to be entertained and walking out if they're playing badly because I am not getting my monies worth. I go to support my team for better or for worse.

Oh my God, have a listen to yourself will you!! Give yourself a pat on the back my friend. Self praise is no praise. You obviously think you deserve some sort of medal because you've never left a game early in your life.

I have no problem with people either leaving early or staying until the warm down's are completed for that matter if they so choose. What I can't stand is the sanctimonious pomp that people like you spout because of it, you obviously think you are a better supporter than some because some people let their anger get the better of them and leave early.

[OwlsFan]

When I defend my position it's "sanctimonious pomp". Never been accused of that before.

Yes, that it my belief. I make no apologies for it. If you think that's sanctimonious, that's your opinion. It's my view of supporting a team through thick and thin (and it's mostly been the latter) and yes, I think it's wrong to walk out and turn your back on your team when it's being beaten, leaving the stadium to the opposition supporters jeering your team, which they were doing in spades. As I said I admired the Celtic fans who stayed to the end and were singing "We're the Celtic supporters..." just before their team scored.

It is something I believe in and have followed so it's not sanctimonious.