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Thread: SPL Discussion Thread

  1. #2221
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    The year of the 5-3 win for Celtic is interesting in that the other two semi-finalists were Renton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renton_F.C. and Queens Park. Shame to read about Renton as the professional era seems to have destroyed this successful village team which had won the cup. The final was also played at Ibrox and the first result was deemed null and void due to the state of the pitch (conspiracy ?) but Celtic easily won the next match again at Ibrox.
    Celtic F.C. were only only a wee boba back then, four years old but already throwing their weight around.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 25/04/2017 at 8:34 AM.

  2. #2222
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Article on the current gap between the two clubs here - http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39688091

  3. #2223
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    Article on the current gap between the two clubs here - http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39688091
    Still might not stop Rangers making a go of it in the next game. The second half of the cup game saw them create a number of chances which on another day might have gone in but admittedly Celtic were 2-0 up at that stage. From Brown's comments after the game it was clear that the message Rodgers had conveyed to the players was "you are a better side and the only thing which will beat you is your attitude" (i.e. bring your A game and you'll win).
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  4. #2224
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Rangers fans are disgusted by the rumoured possibility of their team giving champions Celtic a guard of honour at Ibrox this weekend, ha: http://www.talkingbaws.com/2017/04/r...nour-at-ibrox/

  5. #2225
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Whilst they're all a bit jumpy. I find it a bit OTT to be giving guards of honour at EVERY game. Jesus. Surely the one after they have one the league is enough. And even then I think they're naff.

    It's up there with a former player not celebrating after scoring a goal. Gack.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  6. #2226
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    It would be interesting alright to find out how often it was possible but it'll have to be an exceptionally quiet day at the office tomorrow for me to take that one on
    So, in the spirit of actually contributing and being a team player in this project, I took this on myself.

    I looked at all the semi's going back to 1873/74 and identified the number of occasions that both Celtic and Rangers had been in the semi-finals...

    They have been in the semi finals only 33 times in that period, including the most recent game - 143 seasons - although Celtic were only founded in 1887 (Rangers 1872). So there have only been 130 seasons that this could have happened. 33/130 = just over 25% of times, both teams have appeared in the semis at the same time.

    Of those 33 occasions, Celtic and Rangers were drawn to meet in the semis 10 times - as we have established (not including replays).
    1891/92 (Celtic won)
    1899/00 (Celtic won - replay)
    1904/05 (Rangers won - match abandoned)
    1924/25 (Celtic won)
    1959/60 (Rangers won)
    1991/92 (Rangers won)
    1995/96 (Rangers won)
    1997/98 (Rangers won)
    2015/16 (Rangers won - penalties)
    2016/17 (Celtic won)

    Of the 23 other occasions that they had the opportunity to meet, 9 times they did not meet and 14 times they did not meet but met in the final.
    1893/94 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 3 - Celtic 1)
    1898/99 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 0 - Celtic 2)
    1901/02 - didn't meet in semis.
    1903/04 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 2 - Celtic 3)
    1925/26 - didn't meet in semis.
    1927/28 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 4 - Celtic 0)
    1928/29 - didn't meet in semis.
    1947/48 - didn't meet in semis.
    1953/54 - didn't meet in semis.
    1961/62 - didn't meet in semis.
    1962/63 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 3 - Celtic 0 after replay)
    1965/66 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 1 - Celtic 0 after replay)
    1968/69 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 0 - Celtic 4)
    1970/71 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 1 - Celtic 2 after replay)
    1971/72 - didn't meet in semis.
    1972/73 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 3 - Celtic 2)
    1976/77 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 0 - Celtic 1)
    1979/80 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 0 - Celtic 1)
    1980/81 - didn't meet in semis.
    1982/83 - didn't meet in semis.
    1988/89 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 0 - Celtic 1)
    1998/99 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 1 - Celtic 0)
    2001/02 - didn't meet in semis but met in final (Rangers 3 - Celtic 2)

    In those 14 games where they met in the final, Rangers hold the edge 8-6 in terms of head to head. In the semi-finals where they did meet, Rangers also hold the edge 6-4. In terms of total cup wins, however, Celtic hold the edge with 36 to Rangers' 33 cup wins.

    Interesting things, only 4 times in the 90's did they both get to final 4 and only once in the 00's and 2 so far in the 10's. 7 times in 27 seasons. That seems a remarkably small number of times in such a period of dominance for both albeit one has always been more dominant than the other for long stretches in those decades. Having said that, it matches the frequency throughout the 130 years.

    Also, even though they were kept apart 23 out of 33 times, the pattern and years that this occurred doesn't suggest that my warm balls/cold balls theory holds any merit.

    My biggest learning over the last hour or so has been that this was a complete waste of time - but I hope some of you fellow geeks find it interesting!!

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  8. #2227
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Great work Stu!

    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    Of those 33 occasions, Celtic and Rangers were drawn to meet in the semis 10 times

    Also, even though they were kept apart 23 out of 33 times, the pattern and years that this occurred doesn't suggest that my warm balls/cold balls theory holds any merit.
    Definitely puts the hot/cold balls theory to bed. In probability terms 1/3 is exactly what you'd expect, isn't it, seeing as they'd have a one in three chance of drawing each other each time.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    Interesting things, only 4 times in the 90's did they both get to final 4 and only once in the 00's and 2 so far in the 10's. 7 times in 27 seasons. That seems a remarkably small number of times in such a period of dominance for both albeit one has always been more dominant than the other for long stretches in those decades. Having said that, it matches the frequency throughout the 130 years.
    That is very interesting but begs an obvious question I think - how often did an earlier round meeting between the two clubs prevent the possibility of one or the other making the final four?

    I've checked the 27 seasons from the 1990's to 2010's:

    2010's - Once

    2010-11 5th Round, Rangers 2-2 Celtic, Replay Celtic 1-0 Rangers

    2000's - Twice

    2004-05 3rd Round, Celtic 2-1 Rangers
    2003-04 Q/Final, Celtic 1-0 Rangers

    1990's - Three times (a lady... if you include 1989/90 season)

    1996-97 Q/Final, Celtic 2-0 Rangers
    1990-91 Q/Final, Celtic 2-0 Rangers
    1989-90 4th Round, Celtic 1-0 Rangers


    So that's six times (in those 27 or maybe 28 seasons) that one or the other couldn't possibly reach the final four, Celtic with an incredibly good record in those games but generally had home advantage. I'll put it back to you now to work out how often this happened pre-1990.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 25/04/2017 at 10:00 PM.

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  10. #2228
    Seasoned Pro CraftyToePoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    It's up there with a former player not celebrating after scoring a goal. Gack.
    You are dead right, God be with the days when a goal against a former club was followed by grabbing your nuts & hip thrusting while mouthing, your mommas, all your f*uckin mommas, at the people who formerly worshiped you.

    Way better watch.

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  12. #2229
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Just for you Crafty...


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  14. #2230
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    I'll put it back to you now to work out how often this happened pre-1990.
    Oh man...tomorrows a write off too so.

    Actually - I may have to invoke the Sevco proviso if this continues...

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  16. #2231
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    We need to get Tets on board and get a few graphs going

  17. #2232
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    We need to get Tets on board and get a few graphs going
    You have already done the peer review, the graphs would be superfluous.

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  19. #2233
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    "Celtic fans tease Rangers’ James Tavernier over ‘guard of honour’ tweet: http://www.derryjournal.com/sport/fo...weet-1-7933932

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Fowler
    Following [Rangers] clinching of the 2015/16 Championship crown, fellow title rivals Hibs refused to partake in the tribute before their 3-2 win over the Ibrox club at Easter Road in April. When Alloa Athletic, Rangers’ next opponents, decided to give them a guard of honour the following match, Tavernier tweeted his appreciation - along with a none-to-subtle dig at Hibs. He wrote: “Great respect to @AlloaAthleticFC for the guard of honour today!! True sportsmanship unlike some.”

    Fan @Harky83 tweeted: “I know how much u like a guard of honour, can’t wait to see yours at ibrox for the champions.” While @Ryan224422997 said: “Hopefully you show the six-in-a-row champions the same respect on Saturday.”

  20. #2234
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Fair play to Rangers today on providing Celtic with a guard of honour at Ibrox for an entire 90 minutes.

  21. #2235
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, a Rangers fan was caught on camera doing a monkey impression whilst Scott Sinclair celebrated having scored a penalty with his Celtic team-mates in front of said fan: https://twitter.com/ByTheMins/status...326336/video/1

    Hard to believe that sort of thing is still going on - or, worse, accepted - in some football grounds.

  22. #2236
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    Considering the amount of rhetoric from the 17th century you'll hear at that dump it's not surprising at all. Really disappointing that Celtic didn't hit double figures in the game cause they certainly had the chances to. Thought it was funny to see stewards 'guarding' the goalposts at the broomloan end at the finish to presumably prevent Griffiths from tying a scarf to a post again !

  23. #2237
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Without setting Delorian and SkStu off again, apparently the 4 goal win equals Celtic's best victory at Ibrox (apparently a different Ibrox) since 1895.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  24. #2238
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    The commentators said it was their first time scoring five at Ibrox anyway. Their previous record 4-0 win came in 1898 according to this.

    Some information on the venue here.

    They looked well on course for six or seven on Saturday, Rangers can feel slightly relieved at only losing 5-1 again!

    The hysteria about the obvious gap between the two clubs is a bit baffling I think. What did people expect when Rangers were hurled into the bottom tier of Scottish football without two shillings to rub together? Two years ago they finished 24 points off the pace that Hearts set in Division One and were beaten 6-1 on aggregate by Motherwell in the playoffs, who had finished second bottom of the SPL. To be back in the SPL and qualifying for Europe is a pretty decent progress really and they'll obviously only get stronger from here on.

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  26. #2239
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    McCoist kept reiterating that they need investment and pointed to past million+ signings by way of example. What he didn't mention is that they couldn't afford those signings in the past and they are what got them in this mess. Basically they need a sugar daddy/mammy if they want to close the gap on Celtic and/or for Rodgers to leave and their players to go off to pastures new.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  27. #2240
    First Team Plastic Paddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    The hysteria about the obvious gap between the two clubs is a bit baffling I think. What did people expect when Rangers were hurled into the bottom tier of Scottish football without two shillings to rub together? Two years ago they finished 24 points off the pace that Hearts set in Division One and were beaten 6-1 on aggregate by Motherwell in the playoffs, who had finished second bottom of the SPL. To be back in the SPL and qualifying for Europe is a pretty decent progress really and they'll obviously only get stronger from here on.
    At the risk of a huge chomp, I have to comment on this. "Rangers" were not "hurled into the bottom tier... with two shillings to rub together". The new Ibrox club was not demoted, relegated or anything else like it, but Sevco Scotland was granted a football licence and awarded the vacant SFL spot despite having neither the trading history nor the requisite documentation. Having been allowed by a supine SFA to change its trading style to that of the original club, the new entity's CEO then ran a share issue that raised in excess of 20m and then oversaw the spunking of the whole lot and more. A succession of spivs and chancers subsequently found their way to and through the Blue Room while any serious businesspeople were discredited and scared off. And the supporters keep allowing themselves to be fleeced for more.

    In short, the new "Rangers" is guilty of the same hubris and sense of entitlement as the old, and due to its profligacy appears to be headed in exactly the same direction. As they say in Scotland, hell mend them.

    PP
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