QuoteResult.
UCD v. Derry in the 2005 League Cup Final. The most successful team in its history versus the least successful team (certainly till five years ago) in its history. Venue to be decided on the day, knowing the FAI/eL.
Derry 2-1 up on Longford with a quarter of an hour to go. Longford just pulled one back; Mark Farren had scored twice for Derry. Longford down to ten men after Ferguson was sent off. McCourt is gone off injured for Derry. Looks like it could be Derry in the final...
Result.
UCD v. Derry in the 2005 League Cup Final. The most successful team in its history versus the least successful team (certainly till five years ago) in its history. Venue to be decided on the day, knowing the FAI/eL.
Can anyone point to a piece of evidence (ideally a newspaper report or FAI website) which says for definate who gets the Setanta cup place in the event that Derry qualify twice?
I would presume the league gets it but I'd like to see something written down officially.
None at all.
Someone on the Bohs forum said that Bohs asked for - and got - in writing that the League Cup wouldn't get a Setanta spot before putting out a reserve team against Pat's. I'd say the FAI/eL haven't a clue what'd happen in the event. The precedent is for Cup runners-up to take whatever was on offer to the Cup winners in the scenario, but for League Cup runners-up to be passed over for next team in the league (e.g. if the League Cup winner in England has qualified for Europe already)
But yeah, if it is the runners-up, then we've qualified for the Setanta now barring a Derry collapse even bigger than Shels' and Drogheda's current ones!
I hope the Final is in Tolka Park.
1/ We Won the 1980/81 Leinster Senior Cup Final in Tolka Park
2/ We beat Home Farm in 1983/84 F.A.I Senior Cup in Tolka Park
3/ We beat Waterford United in the 1983/84 F.A.I. Senior Cup Semi-final
in Tolka Park.
4/We won the 1983/84 F.A.I. Senior Cup Final replay in Tolka Park
5/ We knocked Shamrock Rovers 3-in-a-row F.A.I. Cup holders out of the Cup in 1987/88 in Tolka Park
6/ We won the 2000/01 F.A.I. Super Cup Final in Tolka Park.
7/ We won the 2005 Eircom League Cup Semi-final in Tolka Park.
8/ Poor old Shels need the rent money
Ok we lost a couple of Leinster Senior Cups there too but we were beaten by Bohs and Rovers at a time when they were #2 and #1 in the League respectively.
Last edited by CollegeTillIDie; 23/08/2005 at 10:58 PM.
Playing it in Tolka would just be wasting money for both our clubs, and even worse - giving it to Shelbourne for nought !
If we're all honest, there wouldn't eb a big crowd for this game if it was played anywhere in Dublin. It'll doubtless be a mid-weeker, and even though it's a final it is the League Cup afterall, and without being rude UCD are less of an exciting draw than Shels. I'd therefore be shocked if Derry had more than, sy 500 at the game in Dublin on a week night.
Still a decent crowd given the length of trip down. However - how many would UCD realistically have in support in Dublin ? Your average crowd on the attendances thread is 689 - though to be fair that doubtless reflects the large number of Dublin derbies. Including neutrals (of which there'd be very few I believe) I'd say a UCD attendance of 500 on the night would be very generous. That would give us a generous 1,000 attendance for the first final of the season. Whoopee-do.
Forking out good money to hire Shel's ground for a crowd of 1,000 would therefore be a complete waste. It would also be dire for the atmosphere with so few there. No - if it does have to be in Dublin, I'd say Belfield is the best choice for atmosphere and common sense use of money.
However - common sense asserts that the Brandywell is genuinely the best location for the game. I'd predict 1,500-2,000 home supporters there (possibly more, but a final against UCD is less motivating than a grudge one against the Shels), and possibly 50 away fans (?). That gives a crowd of 50-100% bigger than in any Dublin venue. That could only be good for the game, the competition, and for both club's revenue from the game.
If one team has to forego home advantage, then why not go with common sense in deciding which one it should be....
If it's in Derry I for one WON'T BE THERE. It is impossible to travel midweek to the frozen North-West and work for a living. Maybe the Flansiro might be a compromise. At least you can get home from there.Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Playing it in Tolka would just be wasting money for both our clubs, and even worse - giving it to Shelbourne for nought !
If we're all honest, there wouldn't eb a big crowd for this game if it was played anywhere in Dublin. It'll doubtless be a mid-weeker, and even though it's a final it is the League Cup afterall, and without being rude UCD are less of an exciting draw than Shels. I'd therefore be shocked if Derry had more than, sy 500 at the game in Dublin on a week night.
Still a decent crowd given the length of trip down. However - how many would UCD realistically have in support in Dublin ? Your average crowd on the attendances thread is 689 - though to be fair that doubtless reflects the large number of Dublin derbies. Including neutrals (of which there'd be very few I believe) I'd say a UCD attendance of 500 on the night would be very generous. That would give us a generous 1,000 attendance for the first final of the season. Whoopee-do.
Forking out good money to hire Shel's ground for a crowd of 1,000 would therefore be a complete waste. It would also be dire for the atmosphere with so few there. No - if it does have to be in Dublin, I'd say Belfield is the best choice for atmosphere and common sense use of money.
However - common sense asserts that the Brandywell is genuinely the best location for the game. I'd predict 1,500-2,000 home supporters there (possibly more, but a final against UCD is less motivating than a grudge one against the Shels), and possibly 50 away fans (?). That gives a crowd of 50-100% bigger than in any Dublin venue. That could only be good for the game, the competition, and for both club's revenue from the game.
If one team has to forego home advantage, then why not go with common sense in deciding which one it should be....
Last edited by CollegeTillIDie; 24/08/2005 at 7:06 AM.
I was thinking about the Flansiro too. Surely from Derry you could go through Donegal, Sligo and Roscommon together in some reasonable time? I agree that Tolka would be senseless though. You're not going to get a crowd there.
Sounds fair
FYI
League Cup Final 2003 St. Pats V Longford - Richmond Pk.
League Cup Final 2004 Longford V Bohs - Flancare Pk.
So i can't see it being in a nuetral venue.I think it is done on the toss of a coin but i would suspect it will be in the Brandywell in the hope that it will draw a bigger crowd.
Also IMO if Derry win the league ( fingers crossed ) and win the league cup then UCD should get the Setanta Cup spot on offer.It looks like our only way into it now is to keep our FAI cup which won't be easy.
"At the age of twelve, my ambition was to become a gangster. To be a wiseguy was better than being President of the United States. To be a wiseguy was to own the world." - Henry Hill
Longford is hardly that much easier to get to than Dublin, but is more difficult for UCD supporters to get to, and less likely to attract neutrals. The crowd there would therefore be even worse than it would at Belfield.
The League Cup Final doesn't traditionally get played at a neutral venue. Therefore, it's a fact that someone is going to have home advantage. Given that, it would make sense for both the competition and the revenues of both teams to have it in the ground that looks likely to deliver at least a 50-100% bigger crowd.
I accept that there's more to it than just atmosphere and gate receipts, but common sense does point to the Brandywell for this one.
Steve, I think it's fairly rare that two clubs so far apart contest a LC final. I know what you're saying about maximising the crowd but we're talking about the prospect of very close to zero away support. People are definately going to have to seek the whole day off I'd imagine. The whole situation would further tip this tie in your favour.
Trains run from Dublin Connolly to Longford a few times during the day so it could be easier for more people to go from Dublin if it was there.
I'm not too sure about the train station in longford though. How far away is it to the ground ?
"it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen."
The station is in Town so it's 5 minutes by taxi to Flancare but it won't be played there.
"At the age of twelve, my ambition was to become a gangster. To be a wiseguy was better than being President of the United States. To be a wiseguy was to own the world." - Henry Hill
Thank god Longford are out
And wont get that Setanta spot!
they brought nothing to the competition last year!
They should play it in Croke Park
"it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen."
With a place in the Setanta Cup on offer, any arguments about where the game should be played to get an extra 1,500 people in the gate are irrelevant. There's no reason for us to play in Derry (where we have a poor record) to get 40% of 1,500 gate receipts when we can play in Belfield (where we have a decent record), get a crap gate but get into the Setanta.
Longford is far easier to get to than Derry. If there's demand, the SC can run a bus. Going to Longford would mean leaving a good hour or two later than going to Derry, which would give people time to get out of work/get homework done, etc.
Incidentally, I e-mailed the FAI and they confirmed that if we lose, we won't get the Setanta spot - it'll go to the next league team. Hardly a shock, in fairness.
They're still in the FAI, aren't they?
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So there's no Setanta incentive any more then.
We're therefore back to the original question of : do you want a crap crowd and atmosphere, and limited financial return for both club's efforts ? If so - hold it in Dublin or Longford. Do you want a much bigger crowd, better atmosphere, and a bigger financial return for both club's efforts ? Then hold it in Derry. Or even Finn Park !!
Remind me who one-third of your losses this season were to?
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