Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[liamoo11]

I don’t like the political debate but feel obligated to weigh in with some balance. Prior to leaving Ireland and having close Israeli and Palestinian friends, I would have identified with a lot of the rhetoric.

Israeli-Palestine relations are extraordinarily complicated, the Irish media portrayal of the conflict is the most one sided view that I’ve observed. Forgotten is the recurrent persecution of the Jewish people, the “valid” claims on both sides, the fact that many Palestinians (nomadic by nature at that time) happily sold their land to settling Jews too in the late 19th early 20th century so there was a strong “legal” Jewish presence. And by far and away, the average Israeli Jewish person wants peace, are happy for a two state solution but unfortunately Palestine have no control over Hamas (whose main objective is to destroy Israel) leading to zero trust on the Israeli part. Yes, Israel have a lot of strong financial support, but without this Israel would have ceased to exist years ago. Should they not have a right to secure their country? Obviously they’ve completed over reacted at times, but is it okay for them just to permissibly stand by while Hamas attach and rely purely on their defense system?

The Irish history of English oppression naturally lend itself to the Irish people supporting the underdog but the level of biased reporting is remarkable in the Irish media. Suffice to say it is complicated, there are clear wrongs on BOTH side, and there is no easy end in sight exacerbated with current Israeli hardline government and uncontrolled Hamas.

I don’t think this forum is the appropriate place for a debate on the Middle East conflict, it would be nice to move on. I wish Robbie well, and have no qualms with him taking the Tel Aviv job from a profesional standpoint. The fact that so many Irish seem to have an issue is pretty sad in my book

The problem unfortunately is Israel carried out ethnic cleansing to secure a state that prior to the organised plantation of zionists from around the world was inhabited by Palestinians. They found support in these actions from other states like Britain and used the bible as a historical record to lay claim to a land that they had been expelled from.by the Romans 2500 years ago. Also found support from protestant grouping s who wished for the return of Jews to Palestine to herald the return of the messiah when the Jews would return and convert to Christianity as per the bible. The major difficulty for Israel is that it is unwillingling to act as a democratic county and have a one state solution but instead continues to ignore the UN demand to stop building more Israelis settlements to give back what it has taken and most importantly to allow the return of the maybe 1 millon Palestinian refugees who were forced from their homes

[Diggs246]

I don’t like the political debate but feel obligated to weigh in with some balance. Prior to leaving Ireland and having close Israeli and Palestinian friends, I would have identified with a lot of the rhetoric.

Israeli-Palestine relations are extraordinarily complicated, the Irish media portrayal of the conflict is the most one sided view that I’ve observed. Forgotten is the recurrent persecution of the Jewish people, the “valid” claims on both sides, the fact that many Palestinians (nomadic by nature at that time) happily sold their land to settling Jews too in the late 19th early 20th century so there was a strong “legal” Jewish presence. And by far and away, the average Israeli Jewish person wants peace, are happy for a two state solution but unfortunately Palestine have no control over Hamas (whose main objective is to destroy Israel) leading to zero trust on the Israeli part. Yes, Israel have a lot of strong financial support, but without this Israel would have ceased to exist years ago. Should they not have a right to secure their country? Obviously they’ve completed over reacted at times, but is it okay for them just to permissibly stand by while Hamas attach and rely purely on their defense system?

The Irish history of English oppression naturally lend itself to the Irish people supporting the underdog but the level of biased reporting is remarkable in the Irish media. Suffice to say it is complicated, there are clear wrongs on BOTH side, and there is no easy end in sight exacerbated with current Israeli hardline government and uncontrolled Hamas.

I don’t think this forum is the appropriate place for a debate on the Middle East conflict, it would be nice to move on. I wish Robbie well, and have no qualms with him taking the Tel Aviv job from a profesional standpoint. The fact that so many Irish seem to have an issue is pretty sad in my book

"happily sold their land'

Reminds me of the time we happily sold our land during the plantations

[DCWA]

Do you feel the same about everyone that has ever taken a job in England?

Whilst I always appreciate England’s ongoing occupation of a significant chunk of Ireland, and their barbaric colonisation of our land being pointed out, the suggestion here that Robbie Keane taking a job in Israel is in any way comparable to Irish workers emigrating to England over the last few hundred years is idiotic. Irish emigrants working in England (our oppressor and coloniser but also our closest neighbour) is a complex and very interesting history.

The more accurate comparison would be with an Irish manager in the 80s taking a job in apartheid South Africa, or (and whisper it quietly as apparently it insults the zionists) an Irish manager taking a job in Nazi Germany in the late 1930’s.

Robbie Keane taking a job in Israel is wrong. Someone also mentioned Tel Aviv being a nice city - it will be lovely when it is rubble.

Edit to note: I said when it is rubble, it will never be of course as Israel will complete their genocide of the Palestinians in the decades ahead.

[third policeman]

Ha ha.

Anyhow, at the risk of the Mods moving this to "Current Affairs", "Rubbish" or even deleting it entirely (understandable, I admit), I've never read Quinn's autobiography, but I have read Christopher Hitchens' biographical pieces on Mother Theresa and I cannot recommend them highly enough:
https://christopherhitchens.net/mother-teresa




Iconoclasm in the very best sense of the term!

Interestingly Hitchens was called by The Devil's Advocate to testify at the Vatican against her canonisation. A somewhat hypocritical collaboration in a process that he utterly disparaged, but he always loved a platform. I'm not a Catholic but if I had to issue an overall moral judgement on Hitchens and Mother Theresa, I don't think it would be a prolonged process. What's most apparent in his articles is that they aren't really about her at all, but are just another occasion for his stock litany of anti-Catholic and anti-religious tropes, aptly described by David Bentley Hart as "rollicking burlesque, without so much as a pretence of logical order or scholarly rigour."

[dahamsta]

For reference, someone claiming to be Ofer Barsadeh* from the Israeli embassy registered on the site at 0939 yesterday, then sent an email via the contact form 11 minutes later with a reply they'd like to post, and again one minute after that via email for good measure. The reply they wanted to post was aggressive, claiming that points made above are "libellous" and "ludicrous". It wouldn't be allowed on Foot.ie, no matter who posted it.

Whatever about "ludicrous", the use of legal language as veiled threats - however ludicrous(!) - is 100% unacceptable, and I made that clear when I replied, telling them that their language wasn't acceptable, and that they need to read the rules of the Current Affairs forum. They replied and doubled-down, so I have banned their account, and won't parrot their propaganda here.

The email address was generic, so it could have been anyone, but it was a valid Israeli embassy address.

And they wonder why Irish people dislike the Israeli government. You're why, pal. You and your cronies. You're why.

* Husband of the ambassador, good to see Israel includes nepotism in their portfolio of garbage governance.

[liamoo11]

For reference, someone claiming to be Ofer Barsadeh* from the Israeli embassy registered on the site at 0939 yesterday, then sent an email via the contact form 11 minutes later with a reply they'd like to post, and again one minute after that via email for good measure. The reply they wanted to post was aggressive, claiming that points made above are "libellous" and "ludicrous". It wouldn't be allowed on Foot.ie, no matter who posted it.

Whatever about "ludicrous", the use of legal language as veiled threats - however ludicrous(!) - is 100% unacceptable, and I made that clear when I replied, telling them that their language wasn't acceptable, and that they need to read the rules of the Current Affairs forum. They replied and doubled-down, so I have banned their account, and won't parrot their propaganda here.

The email address was generic, so it could have been anyone, but it was a valid Israeli embassy address.

And they wonder why Irish people dislike the Israeli government. You're why, pal. You and your cronies. You're why.

* Husband of the ambassador, good to see Israel includes nepotism in their portfolio of garbage governance.

Hopefully he doesn't see my comments on the dan crowley thread they are proper ludicrous!

[joey B]

That is insane,real sign of a healthy democracy when they’re contacting a random football forum over some fairly mundane criticism….

[Stuttgart88]

And they wonder why Irish people dislike the Israeli government. You're why, pal. You and your cronies. You're why.

The most recent military incursions and the new hard-right ultra-hawkish Security Minister don't help.

[dahamsta]

I didn't want to say "Israel" because of the standard-format "anti-semitic" response it tends to garner, but it has to be said:

Israelis keep voting for Netanyahu and his cronies. The parallels with Germany are always there.