€500 fine for St Pats. why bother

[Colm]

its a bit rich listening to Cork fans whinging about a fine given to Pats when the Cork stewards tried to start trouble with Bohs fans 5 weeks ago.

There are plenty of us who agree with you about some of our stewards btid. We've had problems with a few of them ourselves, a lot of them are fair enough but there are a few who seem to think it's in their job description to start fights with the fans whether they are City fans or away fans.
In fairness, I think they've moved these clowns away from the Shed though as it was only a matter of time until they caused hassle. When the Ollie Byrne banner was raised in the Shed the other night the stewards were grand, a few moths ago they'd have gone mental.

[bigmac]

not that i'm condoning it but he didnt actually get hit by it

So it's alright to throw stuff if you don't manage to hit anyone? We've had threads like this time and again, and the only thing to come out of it is that none of the clubs are willing to take a serious stand against behaviour like this and the league washes its hands of it by handing out meaningless fines and useless warnings. The only good thing to happen with regards to incidents like this has been where a fan was banned from home games for behaviour at an away game (was it Galway, can't remember).

At the end of the day, unless the EL puts in place a serious deterrent that forces clubs to deal with these issues, we are constantly going to have situations such as this. What's the betting that in a few weeks we'll have a similar thread expressing outrage at whatever non-punishment is dished out over the incident in Drogheda.

[Colm]

So it's alright to throw stuff if you don't manage to hit anyone?

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.

[Dodge]

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.

But its OK for Cork fans to say what they like to pats fans?!?

[bigmac]

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.

And that would be alright would it? What did he do to the City fans that was so terrible? Was it worse than throwing a bottle into the crowd?

There seems to be a tendency amongst fans to take the high road if a player returns some of the abuse that comes his way during a game. If someone sticks two fingers up at the crowd (a la recent Shels/Drogs) then he should be severely punished because nobody in the crowd would dream of doing that towards a player. I'm no Dan Connor fan, believe me, but that sort of empty bravado talk is exactly the problem that clubs are trying to deal with.

[ColinR]

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.

as a drogs fan , i wish we didn't have dan connor, but some cork fans here are unreal. he got stitches after that match - either it was a cork player that caused it or (as tv PROVED) the bottle that hit him. stop the blatent lying about it..

[Colm]

But its OK for Cork fans to say what they like to pats fans?!?

You've lost me there I'm afraid Dodge.

he got stitches after that match - either it was a cork player that caused it or (as tv PROVED) the bottle that hit him. stop the blatent lying about it..

The bottle did NOT hit him, I know that for a fact. The only possible way he could have got cut is if he fell or dived on one of the pieces of broken glass afterwards. Although, I reckon it was all a big show on his part.... anyone in the Shed will have seen him glance up at the crowd with a sneaky grin before he threw himself down.

[Slash/ED]

None of that matters a jot, a feckin glass bottle was thrown at him. If it hit or not is of no importance.

[ColinR]

You've lost me there I'm afraid Dodge.




The bottle did NOT hit him, I know that for a fact. The only possible way he could have got cut is if he fell or dived on one of the pieces of broken glass afterwards. Although, I reckon it was all a big show on his part.... anyone in the Shed will have seen him glance up at the crowd with a sneaky grin before he threw himself down.

if you watched tv3 - you would have seen them show the incident, and you could clearly see it HIT him. i watched about 10 times - just to satisfy myself that he was hit, and fabio was definately fouled for the penalty in the same game. he didn't look towards the shed before he went down either.

why do you have to make up lies about this?????

[OneRedArmy]

None of that matters a jot, a feckin glass bottle was thrown at him. If it hit or not is of no importance.

No Slash, apparently he deserved it, Colm said so.

In fact, he was lucky he wasn't killed by a baying mob of Corkians.

According to Colm. He would have deserved that too.

Colm you condoned the Cork fans retaliation against Pats and you've now condoned bottle throwing.

Christ almighty, would you ever grow up, stop defending loutish behaviour and accept that followers of your club can actually do something wrong once in a while.

If this is your attitude I sincerely hope you won't be attending on Friday night at the Brandywell, as there is no place in football for apologists like you.

[Colm]

No Slash, apparently he deserved it, Colm said so.

In fact, he was lucky he wasn't killed by a baying mob of Corkians.

According to Colm. He would have deserved that too.

Colm you condoned the Cork fans retaliation against Pats and you've now condoned bottle throwing.

Christ almighty, would you ever grow up, stop defending loutish behaviour and accept that followers of your club can actually do something wrong once in a while.

If this is your attitude I sincerely hope you won't be attending on Friday night at the Brandywell, as there is no place in football for apologists like you.

I certainly will be in the Brandywell tomorrow night. Really looking forward to it now, always have a good laugh with the Derry fans. Might even see you in the Oakgrove beforehand.

I think you're missing the point I was making about Dan Connor. I'm not condoning the bottle throwing etc but what I'm saying is that if you carry on like that it's only natural that people will react. I mean if I behaved like that and goaded a big group of lads in the middle of Cork or Dublin on a Saturday night, I couldn't really be surprised if I got stuff thrown at me and a few slaps. If a fan behaved like Connor (or Ollie Byrne for that matter) does they'd be thrown out of the ground, surely these rules should apply to them aswell. If Connor was properly punished, he's cop on and not give people a platform to throw stuff at him.

[Dodge]

You've lost me there I'm afraid Dodge.

OK.... Why was it OK for Cork fans to throw a bottle at Dan Connor? is it because he goaded you?

I mean if I behaved like that and goaded a big group of lads in the middle of Cork or Dublin on a Saturday night, I couldn't really be surprised if I got stuff thrown at me

But when it happens on a Sunday afternoon in Inchicore you come here spouting ****e....

HAve I lost you again?

[A face]

Just wondering ... how many of those incidents were reported to the Gardas ??

[OneRedArmy]

Just wondering ... how many of those incidents were reported to the Gardas ??

Fair point. Whilst not absolving Pats from blame, or the scumbags from both clubs, I have some sympathy for Pats if they requested Gardai to police the game & they didn't show.

Re the guards in general, they are always at the main stand/burdocks side of Tolka yet never seem to see or get involved in any of the kerfuffle that goes on.

If you reported stuff they didn't see, I reckon without independent witnesses it wouldn't go anywhere.

If the Pats rock thrower isn't being dealt with by the guards, then a life ban is the least the club should do.

[Dodge]

AFAIK well its very hard to pinpoint who it was. Remember this happended with 6/10 minutes to go as a trickle of fans started to leave. Of course whoever know who it is should report it but if no one reports who it was, what can they do?

[pete]

Fines for clubs should be based on

a) what actions the club did to prevent the incident from happening.
b) what actiosn the club have put in place to ensure cannot happen again.

A big difference between club leaves rocks inside the stadium & rock thrown from outside a ground. Similar for crowd segregation etc...

You could also increase the fines & have a portion suspended assuming club improves its efforts & no more indicents that season...

[bigmac]

I think you're missing the point I was making about Dan Connor. I'm not condoning the bottle throwing etc but what I'm saying is that if you carry on like that it's only natural that people will react. I mean if I behaved like that and goaded a big group of lads in the middle of Cork or Dublin on a Saturday night, I couldn't really be surprised if I got stuff thrown at me and a few slaps. If a fan behaved like Connor (or Ollie Byrne for that matter) does they'd be thrown out of the ground, surely these rules should apply to them aswell. If Connor was properly punished, he's cop on and not give people a platform to throw stuff at him.

So what would you think if Dan Connor threw a bottle into the Shed because of the abuse he was getting from them? Same situation only roles reversed. Would you be saying that the fans abusing the players were lucky that the players didn't get together and kick the shlt out of them afterwards? If Dan Connor threw a bottle into the crowd he'd be banned for life (or should be) therefore as you yourself say,

surely these rules should apply to them aswell

so the fan throwing the bottle should also be banned from the Cross for life.

[bigmac]

Fines for clubs should be based on

a) what actions the club did to prevent the incident from happening.
b) what actiosn the club have put in place to ensure cannot happen again.

A big difference between club leaves rocks inside the stadium & rock thrown from outside a ground. Similar for crowd segregation etc...

You could also increase the fines & have a portion suspended assuming club improves its efforts & no more indicents that season...

some excellent ideas there pete. if clubs can isolate and effectively deal with someone who throws a missile then they should be praised for it, not fined. at the moment though the situation is one where the clubs say "it's not our fault, we can't control what our fans do" and the EL glibly accepts this and passes the blame on to the stewarding etc.. Bottom line, the clubs should be responsible for what goes on in their grounds.

[tiktok]

None of that matters a jot, a feckin glass bottle was thrown at him. If it hit or not is of no importance.

I agree. There is no justification for throwing a glass bottle at any player, that incident was a disgrace, but the club deserved a fine because some drunk moron managed to get a glass bottle of Vodka in to start with. The guy who threw the bottle should be banned for life from the cross, unfortunately, no one who would be willing to come forward actually saw who did it.

Fair point. Whilst not absolving Pats from blame, or the scumbags from both clubs, I have some sympathy for Pats if they requested Gardai to police the game & they didn't show.

I spoke with the head of security after the incident and he mentioned the no-show by the guards, not acceptable at all.

If the Pats rock thrower isn't being dealt with by the guards, then a life ban is the least the club should do.

No witness came forward as far as I know, so neither the guards or the club can do anything.

[Peadar]

500 quid is an awful lot of money if ure scrimping to pay a wage bill

I think that has to be remembered when we look at fines.
We're not in a mega rich league and fines would have to be the same for all clubs. If we go down the route of big fines you'll soon see clubs struggling to pay security costs and players wages.
Is that what we really want?

I doubt anyone at St. Patrick's Athletic wanted to see patrons injured, yet they must pick up the cost of a mindless act by some idot.

Incident noted, action taken, move on.