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Thread: So farewell then...

  1. #221
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    If the Allies had to invade Japan, every city would have been destroyed and many more millions of citizens and soldiers would have been killed.
    This is true. But the atom bomb being used twice on civilians was not the only other option available. Jebus has pointed one out.

  2. #222
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    I disagree, they could have first shown the Japanese a test of the atom bombs power by dropping it, and destroying, one of Japan's uninhabited islands, and warning them that they will do likewise to Tokyo. If the Japanese still refused to surrender after seeing what would happen then the blame would be entirely with the Japanese.

    Not to mention that I couldn't honestly ever call melting people the lesser of any evil
    Firstly they only had two bombs and secondly but for the Emperor's intervention when he saw the results of the atomic bombs, they would have fought on. The Emperor or any Japanese General wouldn't have accepted an invitation to watch a trial run of a bomb. This sort of thing is fantasy for anyone who studied the Japanese psyche in WW2.

    Secondly, "melting" a 100 thousand people or so is the lesser evil compared to the deaths of millions and the total destruction of the Japanese mainland and that's what it would have come down to.

    Thirdly, if an atomic bomb had never been dropped who would have believed the effect of them and the Cold War might just have escalated to the Very Hot War but for the deterrent effect of having seen what the bombs did.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  3. #223
    International Prospect jebus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    Firstly they only had two bombs and secondly but for the Emperor's intervention when he saw the results of the atomic bombs, they would have fought on. The Emperor or any Japanese General wouldn't have accepted an invitation to watch a trial run of a bomb. This sort of thing is fantasy for anyone who studied the Japanese psyche in WW2.
    It wasn't just the Japanese pysche of WW2, but thats besides the point. Again if the Emperor or any of the generals refused to believe that America had this power, then once again there could be no blame attached to America for doing what they did. The fact of the matter is that they wiped out two cities (certainly one of them didn't have to go) without giving Japan any warning of what they could do. (I know America has said that they didn't realise that the cities would be wiped out like that, but I think thats a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    Secondly, "melting" a 100 thousand people or so is the lesser evil compared to the deaths of millions and the total destruction of the Japanese mainland and that's what it would have come down to.
    Thats speculative. For all we know the Japs would have held them on the coastline until such a time as a treaty could be signed. I know people say that the Japanese would never have surrendered, but needless deaths in a war can change people's minds, if the people started speaking out about it the Emperor might have taken action. We just don't know what would have happened

    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    Thirdly, if an atomic bomb had never been dropped who would have believed the effect of them and the Cold War might just have escalated to the Very Hot War but for the deterrent effect of having seen what the bombs did.
    Again that's speculative. I could also say that had the world not known how powerful the bomb was then the Cold War wouldn't have been as intense, as the USSR wouldn't have rushed as much as they did to get their own nuclear warheads, their might not have been a Cuban Missle Crisis, JFK might not have been shot, and the rest of the world still wouldn't be living in fear of countries like North Korea or Iran getting the bomb

  4. #224
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    .... and if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

  5. #225
    International Prospect jebus's Avatar
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    The Fabulous Moolah.

    Longest reigning female wrestling champion of all time, something like 20-odd years

  6. #226
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, in an actual sport, Nils Liedholm, scorer of the opening goal in the 1958 World Cup Final - the game which really shot Pele to fame - and later manager of, among others, the Roma team undone by Bruce Grobbelaar's spaghetti legs.

  7. #227
    Banned Lim till i die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    This sort of thing is fantasy for anyone who studied the Japanese psyche in WW2.
    The Japanese made offers of surrender to America

    But they wanted to play with their new bomb

  8. #228
    Reserves onceahoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    It wasn't just the Japanese pysche of WW2, but thats besides the point. Again if the Emperor or any of the generals refused to believe that America had this power, then once again there could be no blame attached to America for doing what they did. The fact of the matter is that they wiped out two cities (certainly one of them didn't have to go) without giving Japan any warning of what they could do. (I know America has said that they didn't realise that the cities would be wiped out like that, but I think thats a lie)



    Thats speculative. For all we know the Japs would have held them on the coastline until such a time as a treaty could be signed. I know people say that the Japanese would never have surrendered, but needless deaths in a war can change people's minds, if the people started speaking out about it the Emperor might have taken action. We just don't know what would have happened



    Again that's speculative. I could also say that had the world not known how powerful the bomb was then the Cold War wouldn't have been as intense, as the USSR wouldn't have rushed as much as they did to get their own nuclear warheads, their might not have been a Cuban Missle Crisis, JFK might not have been shot, and the rest of the world still wouldn't be living in fear of countries like North Korea or Iran getting the bomb
    Max Hastings has a book coming out dealing with the 2nd World War in the Pacific. It deals with a lot of these points. He was on Pat Kenny yesterday morning. Sounds interesting for those who like history.
    "Look at them. They're all out of step except my son Johnny"
    Mrs. Delaney

  9. #229
    Coach Pauro 76's Avatar
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    Farewell to Nana Moon off EastEnders. She died yesterday.
    'Fascists dress in black and go round telling people what to do, where as priests.....'

  10. #230
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    Literary nut-job (and giant in fairness) Norman Mailer died today.
    more bass

  11. #231
    International Prospect jebus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stann View Post
    Literary nut-job (and giant in fairness) Norman Mailer died today.
    balls

  12. #232
    First Team paudie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stann View Post
    Literary nut-job (and giant in fairness) Norman Mailer died today.
    Was memorable in "When we were Kings" documentary, about the Ali-Foreman fight in Zaire.
    I'm what? I'm ants at a picnic?

  13. #233
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Ian Smith, former leader of what was then called Rhodesia under white rule and who fought a war against African nationalists costing upwards of 30,000 lives.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  14. #234
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    Said the country would go to the dogs under majority rule... and Mugabe went and proved the old reprobate correct

  15. #235
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    The British said that about Ireland as well and they were right for about 70 years
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  16. #236
    Seasoned Pro strangeirish's Avatar
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    Dr. J. Robert Cade. Who? you say. Inventor of Gatorade sports drink. Story.
    History of Gatorade.

    Cool Gatorade ad.
    Last edited by strangeirish; 28/11/2007 at 1:47 AM.
    Did you ever notice that in every painting of Adam & Eve, they have belly buttons. Think about that...take as long as you want.

  17. #237
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Never drank the stuff. Was it like Lucozade?
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  18. #238
    Seasoned Pro strangeirish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    Never drank the stuff. Was it like Lucozade?
    No, it's just a non carbonated sports drink, in different flavors. It's excellent for re-hydration. Actually, it helps with hangovers too.
    Did you ever notice that in every painting of Adam & Eve, they have belly buttons. Think about that...take as long as you want.

  19. #239
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    Kevin dubrow.

    RIP.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  20. #240
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strangeirish View Post
    No, it's just a non carbonated sports drink, in different flavors. It's excellent for re-hydration. Actually, it helps with hangovers too.
    Alka-Seltzer before you go to bed is the best hangover preventative.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

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