Our manager isn't very good is he?Originally Posted by Predator
In relation to the players. I actually think we have a good keeper. Good defenders and a good attack unit. The midfield aren't the required level and that's tricky to say the least.
I actually would play Collins in midfield not because I want to but because I don't think we have a choice. That department needs to have better players
Highly doubt a new manager will be in for Septembers games and the closet you'll likely get to a new manager for those games would be John O'Shea as interim. Don't think FAI will get rid of him until September the earliest and can't see why any new manager would want to start his reign with games against France and Holland.
Er, Peter Doherty (H) and Michael O'Neill (H & A) would disagree.
I didn't see the ROI game, so can only go by the media comments and posts on this forum to conclude that theirs was a poor performance all round.
But even if NI were defensive for 75 minutes and all things considered, we couldn't argue with the result, ours was still a hugely encouraging performance (imo).
For we had a very raw, inexperienced and youthful team, drawn almost exclusively from the second or third tiers, or top tier reserves etc, as we struggled against a severte injury crisis. Yet the team still showed such enormous effort, discipline, tactical awareness and all-round enthusiasm, even against a far superior team, as to be heart-warming.
And while I was no great critic of Baraclough, a manager with a somewhat similar CV to Kenny, I happily admit that the difference last night was Michael O'Neill, a manager who at least knows what a bus looks like, how to drive it and where to park it.
I’ll start by saying that I never thought this was a must win game, it was a “must perform” game and for the table a “must avoid defeat“ game. I did feel it was a game where we should target a win though.
I liked the starting XI - though I’m an Idah sceptic and would have preferred Obafemi. I like the idea of O’Dowda at LWB even if I’ve never seen anything to suggest he can defend. I was glad he picked Smallbone.
I liked that it was a team selected to win the game. There was no undue respect paid to Greece.
But the selection was dependent on the best version of what we think these players can be turning up. Very few did. Idah was beyond ineffective. His inability to impose himself affected Smallbone’s ability to make an impact.
O’Dowda was a defensive liability - and one that Greece targeted. Even the normally reliable Cullen was sloppy and, worse, lacking courage. He’s usually brave on the ball. Our midfielders never took the ball on the half-turn and faced forward, their first touch almost always necessitated a predictable safe pass. When we did receive the ball and turn we often made ground comfortably.
Last night was probably THE bellwether game for Kenny. It was the perfect game to judge here we currently stand. Head to head against a direct peer, not a minnow and not an elite team… and we didn’t even ****ing turn up. It’s clear now the manager has left no proper imprint on this team whatsoever. I wished him well throughout but he’s had his chance and hasn’t taken it.
I wouldn’t have been too negative if we’d played well and drawn a game we deserved to win, but delivering such a bad performance at such a key time spells the end of SK for me.
Did anyone else find the manner in which Bazunu so quickly stated that the laser didn't have an impact on him to be a bit strange? Something in his tone.
And Cullen, Burnley's Mr. Consistency and their player of the year being so weak, error-prone and ineffectual....as I say, I think the dressing room is lost.
If the players are having a quiet revolt.....well at least that shows some sort of togetherness.....to try to look at things in some kind of positive light.....pffff....
Sums it up for me. It's not a great group of players but we need a manager who can get the most out of them. Kenny has had enough chances now. I was hopeful things would click for him as they did at Dundalk and to a lesser extent with the 21s but it's ended up more like his stint with Rovers. He's overwhelmed and out of ideas. The training camp in Turkey is what really seals it. Whatever they worked on was torn apart by Greece and there was no other plan. That's really poor. Ferguson was Kenny's lifeline and he failed to come up with any way to grasp it.
The game was a stark reminder of a few other things outside of Kenny's limitations. We are so reliant on Cullen who isn't anywhere near top level international class and might never be. If he has a bad game, as he did last night, we fall apart. Quite a few of the team are very over hyped as well. Collins was abysmal and it was nothing to do with tactics. He just made terrible decisions and you can see why he got dropped at Wolves. Still young of course but it really shows at times. Not writing him or others off but they have a long way to go. A better manager would certainly help but it won't fix everything.
Can any of the brighter football brains tell me why last night was so riddled with individual errors? Were the tactics so wrong that players didn't know what to do? Or did the players just all collectively fall apart under the pressure? Bit of both? I keep thinking that they were so focused on what they worked on in Turkey that they didn't know what to do when the Greeks tore that plan to pieces. The opening 10 minutes were brutal. A boxing ref might have called it off as we were being battered and had no answers at all.
21 leagues and 25 cups.
So jealous of the Scots,2 goals in the last 2 minutes to beat Norway away and 9 from 9 in the group….
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
Had a look at some of the game stats on whoscored - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/16...Greece-Ireland The average positions map tells its own story
Yeah not one of them, bar Bazunu, Collins, Ferguson, Egan next season, Cullen next season. And the Championship isn’t some back water league. Where are the all conquering Greeks playing? The Luxembourgers? The Armenians? The Azerbaijanis? All top level leagues???
Last edited by weldoninhio; 18/06/2023 at 3:11 PM. Reason: Spelling
Fair enough on Ferguson actually, but both Bazunu and Collins were dropped as not good enough, while next year isn't this year, so Cullen/Egan can hardly count.
The rest of your post is arguing a point I haven't made.
Bottom line - this isn't a golden generation. It's a young team by necessity, because we have a huge gap between about 24 and 29.
He didn't ( thankfully ) resort to any of the, overhaul of an ideology / work in progress / the performance itself angles. He did try to shield behind the scoreline & that we were chasing an equaliser to the end, which although technically true, is also only arguable if you had not seen the game which had just transpired. He looked and sounded chastened, like a guy who picked a team to achieve an outcome which within minutes ( and a high speed assembly line of corners ) was clearly not about to happen. I think the expression would be s h i t got real for him.
Yeah, I seen the media questioning / conference since and he looked completely defeated. Didnt offer any coherent answers to the questions he got and had no tangible explanations for the performance. Hard to see how his position remains tenable. He might get the rest of the campaign but it is not because he should be there.
Survey for fans who were in Athens
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/VMHPQC6
I am a New England Patriots fan who has just watched Croatia lose the Euro Final. Having mentioned those two teams, believe me when I tell you I know what it takes to be a successful team. And believe me also when I tell you that we (Ireland) are a million miles away from being a team. We are a collection of individuals who really don't know what the f they are supposed to do in a green shirt.
On the red card, I thought Matt was hard done by. He nudged the greek player shoulder to shoulder, who then hit the deck in agony clutching his face. The greek players orchestrated a fury, the pony tailed one in particular was red card agressive.
The ref fell for the drama hook line and sinker.
https://youtu.be/j9G0MNgAP5Y?t=123
At worst a yellow card.
A lot to unpack about the game on Friday. I can’t get around the overall system and the decision to play 5 at the back. But I’ll come back to that.
You can go into team selection - and without being involved or knowing how fit people really were, I would have started Obafemi and O’Shea in place of Idah and Lenihan. Retrospectively - maybe I would have started Hendrick and McGrath instead of Molumby and Smallbone, McClean instead of O’Dowda,
Despite the Greeks clearly being the better side, it was an unnecessary penalty given away that cost us. Overall it was a dire performance - but the recurring theme, through good or bad performances is that we consistently make individual errors which cost goals. It’s really hard to legislate for Callum O’Dowda doing that - or Alan Browne doing the same against Scotland.
Bazunu had a good game, Collins too - scored one, nearly scored a screamer, gave the ball away poorly about three times and didn’t track once from it - but made key blocks and tackles and overall a good performance from him.
Doherty looked totally off the pace - he was always going to start with Coleman injured - and out best attacking moments came from him - but it was one of his worst performances.
Egan wasn’t the problem but wasn’t good either. Don’t think he’s as effective in the central slot. When it was Duffy in the middle and him on the left, I think he was much more consistent and his performances defensively have dipped since.
Lenihan doesn’t look like he belongs in an Ireland shirt. He seems like a really good guy - who you’d love to have around. The fact that we ended up playing him kinda shows we played the wrong system.
Initially the system was brought in for a few reasons. 1) we were leaking goals 2) we had a plethora of good centre half options - Duffy, Egan were first choice and we had Collins, O’Shea, Omobamidele and Manning arriving. 3) The system also made it easier to play both Doherty and Coleman who were considered our best players. 4) a good amount of those players were playing week in, week out in a 5 at the back
As for 1) we’ve started leaking goals again 2) and 3) When Duffy, Omobamidele, O’Shea (assuming he wasn’t looking himself?), Coleman, Manning aren’t being available or being selected, then the advantages of playing 5 at the back greatly diminish, purely from a selection perspective. 4) plenty of teams have moved on from playing 5 at the back, so far less of our squad are playing it now than they were 2 years ago.
The issue in general is that the opposition full backs are often left with acres of time and space, as was the case with Tsimikas. Smallbone was tucking inside to cover their holding midfielder and Doherty couldn’t push up, because Greece’s left winger was hugging the touchline. We always had either 1 or 2 centre halves free with nothing to do except mark space - meaning Ferguson, Idah and Smallbone in particular are running endlessly to cover spaces where gaps emerge. It just allows Greece to dictate the game in possession. If you go ahead and they feel they need to press you, it’s a different story - but they were happy just dropping into a shell when we didn’t have possession and we were losing possession in a condensed midfield. Our midfield was so poor - all four options: Cullen, Molumby, Smallbone and Knight. All championship/L1 lads who haven’t played in 6 weeks but not like we had many viable alternatives who weren’t in the same boat (of Browne, Hendrick, Sykes, McGrath - just McGrath I guess).
The other issue that’s emerged is, with that system, so much of the creative burden is placed on the wing backs, and for the most part, Doherty has delivered. Whereas on the left side, it’s been much more of a struggle - McClean at this stage in his career lacks the burst of acceleration or the creativity to really do damage from that position against international opposition. Stevens and Brady didn’t do much to warrant selection there. So with that in mind, I can see why O’Dowda was selected - and maybe against weak opposition he’s still a good option - but his defensively weaknesses were clear for everyone to see. I suspect Manning would have started if available and will be the starter come September. Never a red card for Doherty but whatever. Presumably a 3 match ban for a straight red card - which means he’s unavailable for France and Netherlands which is a huge loss.
Up top, there was an obvious selection dilemma, the most successful partnership we had available was Obafemi and Parrott (at a time when their careers were going better), followed by Idah and Parrott - who dovetailed really well from U17 onwards. Obviously, you had to play Ferguson but either way, you were gambling over who he’d work best with, without any time to develop a partnership. I suppose it’s a real shame Ogbene wasn’t available - because they began to develop something against France. The Idah selection along side him really didn’t pay off.
Not much has changed from a qualification perspective I don’t think, I still think the French and the Dutch will be #1 and #2. And we are, as we always were, dependent on getting through a playoff.
Nonetheless, it was perhaps the most deflating and poor performance in a long time - and it removes any positivity around the last window.
Hopefully a big win tonight and we all feel a little better till September…
That was Collins setting Doherty up in injury time too; that could easily have been an assist for an equaliser. I think that game was why it's suggested Collins move up into midfield at times; he seems to make a great impact in attacking positions but can be suspect defensively at times
I didn't blame him, I highlighted the inescapable fact, that we've lost the last 3 games with him in goal, and 4 of the last 5. I don't know how that fact can be disputed, but obviously it looks like it is.
Southampton lost their patience with him with 6 games to go, but apparently he still has to be playing for us, despite goal after goal after goal of every type flying past him. No amount of good saves can cover that up. But if that's enough to earn him motm, that tells you the strength in depth we have.
The championship is rotten, Division 2 in old money, a pub standard league that all of them are constantly trying to either get out of, or stay out of. Unfortunately most of our players are stuck in it, but not others. When was the last time a player from that league played for England? Germany? Spain?
I didn't expect anything from the Greece game, and all we got was a goal thanks to VAR, the first such goal in our history, and demonstrating again why it's essential at this level. I don't expect us to beat any opposition, bar the bottom seeds at home. So expecting us to win in Greek heat, with a team who haven't played a game in 6 weeks, was way beyond the capabilities of this team.
Of course, the default reaction after every game, is sack the manager. Yes literally after every single game, win lose or draw. This job must be the only football management job on earth, where the manager's head is demanded after winning his matches, let alone the ones he doesn't.
we've been winning matches?
it wasn't hot at all by the way.
edit: hadn't realised you're a complete kennyite til i checked your other posts.
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