We really have to win. So swap Idah for obefemi.Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Obefemi has that spark to creat or score a goal out of nothing Idah doesn't have that in his locker
My thinking is that Idah might be a better foil for Ferguson, Obafemis pace off the bench could also be important. That said if Obafemi does start I wouldnt be upset, he has played very little football in last few months though.
I also think we need to realize that a draw in Greece is a really good result, very few teams go there and win.
It's not a good result at all. As far as qualifying is concerned, it's a bad result. No matter what way you look at it.
But a draw is again surrendering qualification in round 2.
I know it's incredible difficult to win in Athens but we have to pick the team and also have the attitude to win.
We are were we are, but we can t pretend France and Holland aren't there. We ain't going to Germany if we don't win, so let's try to win. Kenny of course will be worried about his job if we lose, so unfortunately that might influence his thinking.
I've been thinking about the result a bit. We can expected one, or both, of France and the Netherlands to get three points in Athens. If we want to keep pace with them, we have to match their results against Greece and Gibraltar.
So a win is a must.
I'd be happy with a draw if it's progress on performances against Luxembourg, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Malta, etc
It would be a real blow for qualification but I think we have to be realistic about where we are in the greater scheme of things. I'm not sure you can set an unreasonable target (qualification from this group) and be disappointed if it doesn't happen.
There's few enough in the Greek squad you'd be worried about in fairness and their recent results haven't been great - but they can say the exact same about us
I'll flip that a little bit. A win away to Greece would be an excellent result and is also somewhat achievable.
Kenny has failed nearly every audition so far and sadly I don't see that changing. Ferguson is the one element that might affect that but....
2-0 Greece.
I agree to an extent. Is a draw in Greece really that much progress? I know they're tough to beat but I wouldn't necessarily look at drawing with them as making much progress. Also, just expecting better performances than the ones against the teams mentioned above is not progress, Stu. Those were some of the worse performances I've seen from an Ireland team to date, so it couldn't get much worse.
I do see where you're coming from but we really need to be getting a result in Greece if we want to be even remotely challenging for a playoff spot and the only way I'l see progress is if we are challenging for these spots.
I think Kenny knows that too. No one is really expecting us to go to France or Holland to get a result but they're expecting one in Greece, and rightly so in my opinion.
We certainly need to be getting a win if we're going to qualify; no arguments there.
But we've a poor away record against this level of side; Greece are very slightly ahead of us on the Elo ratings and with home advantage eloratings.net is giving us a 35% chance and Greece 65%.
I think putting in a good shift and getting a draw in Greece would be progress - arguably it shouldn't be progress and I'd agree with you there, but it's a slightly different point. We wouldn't have dropped so low we'd see it as progress, but here we are sadly
I don't really know what to expect out of it at all tbh. June is always a funny month for internationals
I dont think the Dutch are guaranteed to go to Greece and win. Forget France, they will run away with the group.
IF we can get 4 points from each of the Greeks and the Dutch we will qualify. Im saying we could go to Holland and get a draw there too, and I believe we can beat both at home.... thats the context of saying this game friday is not a must win.
1 Bazunu
2 Doherty /Gallagher
3 Manning
4 O Shea
5 Egan
6 Cullen
7 Collins
8 Ronan
9 Ferguson
10 Mikey Johnston
11 Knight/Parrott
Is the eleven I like the most , from all irish available players
That does sound almost needlessly optimistic to be fair
At what point is it fair to expect more then "Is it progress?"
Its been like 15 years of that at this point
We some are saying that anything less than a win in Greece is unacceptable. If we are to qualify we will have to finish ahead of the Dutch somehow, rather than being needlessly optimistic I think its a dose of realism
Because they want him sacked if he doesnt win. Or the case against him to be strengthened. A draw in Greece would be objectively considered a good result (their recent form, heat/hostility, etc). With SK's baggage, that kind if thinking goes out the window. It probably does dent our qualification hopes though - which were already extremely slim. When you draw France as the second seeds in a group you are up against it. Lets be real, like.
Ronan and Manning are not even in squad.... but you knew that!
We do need to beat the Dutch to qualify - but I don't think "I believe we can beat both Greece and Holland at home" is necessarily realism. Especially when added to two away draws too.
Think my lineup would be
Bazunu
Doherty
O’Shea
Egan
Collins
O’Dowda
Cullen
Molumby
Smallbone
Ferguson
Obafemi
————
Don’t think I’d really be upset with any of the keepers. Travers had an excellent performance vs Everton but is nominally 3rd. Kelleher was poor vs Southampton and Bazunu hasn’t played a game in months. So whatever.
O’Dowda a shade ahead of McClean but easily flip them and have O’Dowda coming on in second half to add a more creative element on the left.
Between Obafemi, Parrott and Idah - I’d trust Obafemi to score most - could easily get a goal from nothing. Thought Idah did well replacing Ferguson against France - and given the conditions - I don’t think we can expect any of our 4 options up top to last more than 60 mins.
Johnstone could be very useful off the bench aa well.
I do think if we perform like we did against France we CAN get 4 points from both the Dutch and the Greeks. I didnt say we absolutely should get those results.
Personally I think its unrealistic to say we should beat Greece on Friday, I think we can beat them sure, but I still think a draw is a good result. If we are to qualify we are going to have to pull out some amazing results. The 2 most likely games to get these great results will be home to both Greece and Holland. I think its realistic to think we can get a draw in Athens, and then we have to be at our very best to get a result in Amsterdam.
Its realism to point out that these sort of results are going to be necessary for us to qualify
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