2023 FAI Cup

**pineapple stu** · 19/08/2023, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

As for accusations of UCD not doing work on the pitch - so what, prior to the game it may have suited to enhance home advantage against possibly a better footballing side.

I should add I don't ever remember seeing groundstaff working on the pitch before a UCD match. But we've never once had a game abandoned, and I can only think of one other game postponed for rain (against Rovers in 2011). There was a couple of other games postponed where all the league fixtures were cancelled (stuff like Storm Emma or Hurricane Ophelia)

It's usually a decent playing surface too once the egg chasers bugger off.

So when a game gets abandoned for the first time in 44 years of league membership, was it (a) amateur hour stuff or (b) exceptional weather conditions?

The first pitch inspection only took place at 7:30 so far as I'm aware, so presumably the refereeing panel had no issues with the pitch up until that point. The rain only started getting really heavy about 20-30 minutes before kick-off.

**Nesta99** · 19/08/2023, 5:46 PM

Footage of UCD bowl last night...no effort made with the pitch indeed

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x17teib

(I also love this old classic from The Oval when the orange ball burst, just a pity it cant ...yet... be included in the GLITW archive. None of this unplayable pitch rubbish! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d48a6MDmCBM )

**Dermobohs** · 19/08/2023, 10:16 PM

Very easy win for bohs in awful conditions Friday, Rockmount to give them their due credit we�re on a hiding from ko with that gale lashing down and only just starting their season.
Keeper pulled off a couple of fine stops too, and the two centre backs kept Afolabi quiet for 20 minutes anyway( with extreme difficulty)but a 3-0 ht was kind to them, as was the final score.
Home draw next is all I�d like, don�t fear anyone left, our names on it anyhow.

**Philosophizer** · 20/08/2023, 6:28 AM

Originally Posted by Dermobohs

Very easy win for bohs in awful conditions Friday, Rockmount to give them their due credit we�re on a hiding from ko with that gale lashing down.

That gale was actually at Rockmount�s back for the 1st half but it didn�t make any difference. They could barely get out of their own box, never mind their half. I know they�re in preseason but the standard of even the best intermediate teams seems to be miles below LOI. And they�re the best intermediate team in Munster�

**nigel-harps1954** · 20/08/2023, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

That gale was actually at Rockmount�s back for the 1st half but it didn�t make any difference. They could barely get out of their own box, never mind their half. I know they�re in preseason but the standard of even the best intermediate teams seems to be miles below LOI. And they�re the best intermediate team in Munster�

Current Intermediate Cup holders..

The gulf in standard between LOI and non-LOI is massive. It was almost embarrassing watching Skerries against Harps the other night at times, with no disrespect to Skerries, but it was men against boys.

**Shinkicker** · 20/08/2023, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Larry 'da' Wyse

In defense of non-league teams, their season is just up and running a few weeks or even in pre-season. Very hard to get up to speed and try and match a LOI team.

I fully understand your point, but if I was the manager of a non league team in the FAI CUP, I would have started training earlier, played additional friendlies and possibly trained 3 or 4 days a week. I know it's easier said than done but you have to do something to ensure you are not on the end of a drubbing. Everyone knows when the cup matches are on and has the opportunity to do something about it. Unfortunately the gap in quality is to big for many to do something so they just don't bother. In saying that Rockmount were well set up but lacked fitness and quality.

**Nesta99** · 20/08/2023, 12:48 PM

Its interesting to see the gap between LoI and non=league sides growing. There wasnt such a gap in days of yore were a shock result happened (Ashownvilla/Malahide/Drogheda still hurt as a Dundalk fan). Id imagine it is to do with the increase of full-time training for starters, that the seasons are not aligned with non-league preseason. Any other opinions on things? Does it erode a powerbase, influence the argument to align seasons. It seems to me that the arrogance from some quarters of inter/junior game that they were just as good as LoI and dismissive toboot. Any statos that would have the records of non league v senior in the FAI Cup, mainly in the days of the old winter season? St Francis obviously being the high watermark in reaching the final.

Harps are no great shapes currently yet were ridiculously superior, Bohs a very good side so less of a surprise to be do dominant but as Philosiphiser suggests, considering the weather, a goal kick with a gale behind a team should have opposition turnng and heading deep toward their goal. Thoughts? could it influence a seachange in resistance to restructuring the wider setup?

**Philosophizer** · 20/08/2023, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

Any statos that would have the records of non league v senior in the FAI Cup, mainly in the days of the old winter season? St Francis obviously being the high watermark in reaching the final.

Someone on here analysed it recently. They compared the LOI v non league sides over the past 20 years or so. The data showed the gap has widened in the past few years.

I suppose it�s a good thing, as it shows our league is progressing.

**Philosophizer** · 20/08/2023, 12:58 PM

Moving this table to the top again since the LOI Vs Non league debate is being discussed. It�s quite clear that LOI has pulled away significantly in the last 5 years.

**Philosophizer** · 20/08/2023, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by total hoofball

Here below is Non-League vs LOI statistics since 2007. I'm counting 'A' Championship teams during 2008-2011 as non-league.. Penalty shootout outcomes are not counted as a result these are counted as a draw. PPG = Points per Game i.e. 3 points for win/1 point for a draw. GDPG = Goal Difference per Game

40 defeats in 41 games for Non-League teams in the past 5 FAI Cup seasons is pretty damning even considering results were not great 10-15 years ago

I would have to try find time to work through further season backwards and something similar for Premier Division vs First Division I feel may also tell a growing gap

	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PPG	GDPG
2007	11	1	2	8	8	28	-20	0.45	-1.81
2008	10	1	1	8	4	25	-21	0.40	-2.10
2009	13	1	3	9	7	38	-31	0.46	-2.38
2010	11	0	2	9	6	30	-24	0.18	-2.18
2011	12	1	0	11	10	34	-24	0.25	-2.00
2012	12	1	1	10	10	29	-19	0.33	-1.58
2013	13	1	2	10	11	35	-24	0.38	-1.84
2014	9	0	1	8	4	30	-26	0.11	-2.88
2015	13	3	2	8	13	24	-11	0.85	-0.85
2016	12	1	1	10	6	39	-33	0.33	-2.75
2017	11	2	1	8	10	29	-19	0.63	-1.73
2018	10	0	0	10	7	47	-40	0.00	-4.00
2019	7	0	0	7	4	21	-17	0.00	-2.42
2021	9	1	0	8	5	32	-27	0.33	-3.00
2022	9	0	0	9	0	41	-41	0.00	-4.56
2023*	6	0	0	6	2	18	-16	0.00	-2.67

Here it is.

**pineapple stu** · 20/08/2023, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

I suppose it�s a good thing, as it shows our league is progressing.

Or is non-league regressing?

Either way, we've talked here about where new clubs might come from and it's not great to see that there's so few who could be competitive at First Division level

**EalingGreen** · 20/08/2023, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

Someone on here analysed it recently. They compared the LOI v non league sides over the past 20 years or so. The data showed the gap has widened in the past few years.

I suppose it�s a good thing, as it shows our league is progressing.

You may well be right.

As against that, recent LOI experiences in Europe may suggest otherwise, so that it is in fact the Intermediate sides are regressing? (Or a bit of both?).

Either way, this can't be good for the overall health of football in ROI, if only because it makes it even harder for Intermediate clubs to bridge the gap and "keep the Senior clubs honest".

And I have to say, for all the other advances domestically in the LOI (most notably attendances), for a country with your tradition, resources and potential only to support 16* Senior sides seems less than optimal to me.

All of which for me hardens the argument against the Irish League (only) moving to a summer season, as some in NI are advocating.

* - Not counting 2 amateur sides (Treaty and Kerry), a University side and DCFC.

**joey B** · 20/08/2023, 2:28 PM

St Patrick�s CY seem to have gave Wexford a decent game even if the result didn�t go their way�

**Nesta99** · 20/08/2023, 2:45 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Or is non-league regressing?

Either way, we've talked here about where new clubs might come from and it's not great to see that there's so few who could be competitive at First Division level

Tbh I hadnt really considered a regression of non-league rather than progression of professionalism at senior level. If this is the case what would be the cause. It isnt levels of participation, coaching standards have likely improved. So are LoI now skimming the cream of the crop. Are the introduction of new sides ie Kerry, Wexford and Treaty relying more on local talent, ditto Harps with a longer term vision on developing local youth. Clubs like Cork, Longford, Athlone (maybe) among others that have to be pragmatic on a budgetry basis and not just take on the fringe players from say Dublin academy players. I dont intend to tease out issues that I already have a notion of here, Im genuinely out of the loop and interested in the changing enviornment of the game here at all levels. National youth leagues will have a bearing but cant just be this. There were non senior teams that were a right nuisance to draw in the past, full of ex LoI players often with an axe to grind. Could it legitimately be the basis of an argument or even leverage to drag them along with wider FAI reform of the admin of the game? Im also thinking less about potential senior clubs and more about the greater development of talent - players that are late developers getting a shot etc.

**EalingGreen** · 20/08/2023, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

Tbh I hadnt really considered a regression of non-league rather than progression of professionalism at senior level. If this is the case what would be the cause. It isnt levels of participation, coaching standards have likely improved. So are LoI now skimming the cream of the crop. Are the introduction of new sides ie Kerry, Wexford and Treaty relying more on local talent, ditto Harps with a longer term vision on developing local youth. Clubs like Cork, Longford, Athlone (maybe) among others that have to be pragmatic on a budgetry basis and not just take on the fringe players from say Dublin academy players. I dont intend to tease out issues that I already have a notion of here, Im genuinely out of the loop and interested in the changing enviornment of the game here at all levels. National youth leagues will have a bearing but cant just be this. There were non senior teams that were a right nuisance to draw in the past, full of ex LoI players often with an axe to grind. Could it legitimately be the basis of an argument or even leverage to drag them along with wider FAI reform of the admin of the game? Im also thinking less about potential senior clubs and more about the greater development of talent - players that are late developers getting a shot etc.

Interesting thoughts there.

Might it also be that in the absence of a realistic chance of attaining Senior status, clubs are instead concentrating on expanding their community involvement - boys/girls/women/Football For All etc? So that if they do raise a bit of money (Social club, sponsorship, advertising etc), rather than paying 1st team players a wage, or investing in the stadium to attract extra spectators etc, they instead divert it towards subsidising membership, or extending playing facilities (eg artificial training pitches)?

Also, may it be harder now to attract players from GAA, if there is a barrier to how far they can go in our code? Am open to correction here, but if GAA is raising its game generally (no pun intended), including improving facilities and (shall we say) pushing the boundaries of Amateurism etc, might it be that Intermediate soccer is now less attractive by comparison?

**joey B** · 20/08/2023, 4:54 PM

Derry dominated for the first 35 odd minutes but Pats had 2 good chances towards the end of the half there,decent game�..

**Shinkicker** · 20/08/2023, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

Its interesting to see the gap between LoI and non=league sides growing. There wasnt such a gap in days of yore were a shock result happened (Ashownvilla/Malahide/Drogheda still hurt as a Dundalk fan). Id imagine it is to do with the increase of full-time training for starters, that the seasons are not aligned with non-league preseason. Any other opinions on things? Does it erode a powerbase, influence the argument to align seasons. It seems to me that the arrogance from some quarters of inter/junior game that they were just as good as LoI and dismissive toboot. Any statos that would have the records of non league v senior in the FAI Cup, mainly in the days of the old winter season? St Francis obviously being the high watermark in reaching the final.

Harps are no great shapes currently yet were ridiculously superior, Bohs a very good side so less of a surprise to be do dominant but as Philosiphiser suggests, considering the weather, a goal kick with a gale behind a team should have opposition turnng and heading deep toward their goal. Thoughts? could it influence a seachange in resistance to restructuring the wider setup?

You mentioned Ashtown Villa. They had a centre half called O Brien who's brother was Rocky O Brien who was with sligo I believe. Ashtown O Brien was on more money than Sligo O Brien and played in leinster, while Sligo played nationwide. I think that gap has now been reversed and widened even with the part time top level clubs as the Harps game proved.

**Dermobohs** · 20/08/2023, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Shinkicker

You mentioned Ashtown Villa. They had a centre half called O Brien whose brother was Rocky O Brien who was with sligo I believe. Ashtown O Brien was on more money than Sligo O Brien and played in leinster, while Sligo played nationwide. I think that gap has now been reversed and widened even with the part time top level clubs as the Harps game proved.

Whose brother Rocky was with Sligo�
You do know who Rocky OBrien is yeah?
****in bohs legend