Im not sure about moving Collins into midfield, yes he has decent feet and can bring the ball out of defense, but taking the ball on the half turn in midfield and passing the ball forward like Cullen does for example is a completely different skillset that I just cant picture Collins doing. Not saying its not worth looking at, but Id have my doubts that it would work. McGrath was exceptional.
On a side note, I seen that Argentina beat Panama in a friendly last night with 2 late goals. It made me wonder what the reaction would be here if it was Ireland vs Panama and we just about squeezed past them. Id have no doubt that the knives would be out out.
Argentina have a little bit more credit in the bank!
And we are a small nation who have no right to beat anyone simply because we've had good teams in the pastOriginally Posted by Diggs246
We are a small nation. But I believe we have every right to beat anyone and that's the beauty of football.
We can beat anyone, that doesnt me should beat everyone, including what would be perceived as smaller nations. Most Irish people were shocked to see how far Morocco got in the World Cup, because most wouldnt follow football very closely. If we had lost to Morocco a year ago Kenny would have got hammered for it, but when you look at the players they have and who they play for they are excellent.
Latvia for example seen as a very soft touch, we should beat the 5 nil if you looked at most social media comments. They had only lost 1 game in 12 going into the other night. Won their NL group, a division below us, but if they get promoted for that we will be in same NL division next time. In recent years they have drawn with Norway, lost only 1 nil to the Dutch and beaten Azerbaijan who we had our obvious struggles with.
My point is that we would of course expect to beat them and we did, and yet because of 10 mins of madness where we concede 2 goals its still seen as a terrible over all performance by some.
Edit: they were in League D to our B so were 2 divisions below us.
Last edited by Razors left peg; 25/03/2023 at 4:45 AM.
Noticed Luxembourg drew in Slovakia yesterday.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
No way! And we only lost to Luxembourg 1-0 at home. Outstanding achievement by Kenny!
Anyone have two tickets for sale? Is this the right place to be asking? Thanks.
Panama were at the Russia World Cup and are around our level in the rankings
Anyone who'd have the knives out if we narrowly beat them doesn't really know what they're talking about tbh
Anyone in our Nations League group is pretty much exactly on the same level as us, because that's how it works... And yet the knives have been out big time because we didn't win every game.
Fixed that for you. Even Kenny didn't expect to win every game, just the group.
I must have hallucinated us beating Scotland and Armenia?
Yeah we would have hoped to do better but the 3 other team's in that group are our level at the moment whether we want to admit it or not and the games were all close for the most part.
The bright side is I believe we are an ascending team who will continue to improve over next few years to a point we can expect to compete with better teams than Ukraine, Scotland and Armenia on a regular basis.
Aim, not expect. It’s been rewritten by Boomers and others that he said he expected to win the group and to not do so was a failure. The quote was:
“Listen, I have always set targets. I have set the bar high in dressing rooms I’ve been in. I’ve always done that. There’s no guarantees. If we don’t win the group it won’t be for the want of trying.
“We’re not favourites. We’re third-favourites. I could easily just play it down. We’re on a good run of form. We’ve improved a lot.We’ve only one defeat in 12. It’s an emerging team. You feel the team is going to get better."
“We’ve the capacity to score goals. We’re defending better. We’re on a run of good defensive performances as well. The progression of the team, we’ve seen the team evolve over a period of time.
“From March to March we scored 23 goals and the team has improved, keeping five clean sheets in the last six games, so we know it is a big incentive.“
“So I feel that the team is getting better and there is a good connection between the experienced players and the younger players. You can really feel that in the group.”
“There is a lot of motivation there but we realise we have been drawn in a tough group — Ukraine, quarter-finalists at the Euros, a really exceptional team, Scotland are on a high as a nation at the moment and Armenia are improving of course."
“So we have a tough group but it is certainly our ambition to win the group. That is what we are trying to achieve.”
And he gets ridiculed for saying that... imagine if he had come out and said "ah sure, it's a tough group and we'll do our best but let's be realistic lads we won't win it"
That's fair. I hadn't read the quote in context before.
I think I said his target was to win the Nations League. Here's his actual quote:
“Our ambition is to win the group because that gives you a playoff,” said Kenny. “We take the Nations League very seriously.
“If we apply ourselves, improve as players get more exposure to international football, and improve again, we’ll give ourselves every chance. If we make it a priority, we can strive to do that.
“That’s what we want to do, that’s the ambition. I felt that it was realistic for us to want to do that.”
He made it a priority, they were striving to achieve it, he knew of the play off significance but we still came closer to coming bottom in the group ahead of an awful Armenian team. So no matter what way you try to spin it, he failed.
Here's another quote for you all to mull over:
"We’re going into the competition to win matches and to do well in that tournament. The objective of this team and the way we built this team is to qualify for Germany 2024 and one of the things about the Nations League is that obviously winning the group or possibly finishing second even could give you a playoff for the Euros and that’s motivation enough.”
The knives were out because we were bloody close to being relegated by losing home and away to an Armenia side the other two hammered, and because we lost to Ukraine's reserves.
People were generally delighted with Scotland at home and encouraged by Ukraine in Poland.
All of which is a world of a difference from narrowly beating Panama in a friendly as you suggested
Aye, you're dead right there, good point.
At least we agree it's an idea worth a look.
Question for the old timers:
I was a few years too young (only just, mind): how many games did Lawro and McGrath (or Mcgraff as I always hear his name) play in midfield. And was it something that worked well or was it obvious they were centre halves playing in midfield?
I remember a bit of Lawro playing midfield most memorably I think scoring from midfield away to Scotland in the Euro 88 qualifiers. Wasn’t old enough or wise enough (still applies) to recall how he performed in the role but I do remember McGrath playing there. He played almost like a midfield sweeper and was so good on the ball. I remember him scoring a few sweet goals from outside the box, volleys from half cleared corners and stuff so he was l technically strong and I think either BBC or RTE (before a major tournament) did a segment on him as a midfielder under Jack and they were singing his praises. He didn’t look out of place to me but again I was probably still a bit too young to really be able to assess. Might have to rely on some of the elder elder statesmen on here (you know who you are) to fill in the gaps.
Lawrenson was also good in midfield.
I think it’s worth noting though that the ball almost always went long from the goalkeeper so Lawrenson and McGrath would usually be facing the ball on its way back when they’d first get hold of it. It wasn’t really until Keane came into the team that we had a midfielder who could receive the ball deep and pivot to face forward and it was well into Mick’s tenure that this became routine. He did it so well too, receiving it on his left, turning with ease and facing forward with the ball in his right foot. I’m sure Giles and others did this but under Jack there was no Cullen type role. I think people misremember how good we were in midfield under Jack - Lawro, McGrath, Houghton, Sheedy, Whelan, Sheridan… - but there was never really any deep ball player.
Collins would have done a great job in a Jack midfield.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 25/03/2023 at 3:21 PM.
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