Republic of Ireland V Latvia - Wednesday, 22nd March 2023 - Friendly

[elatedscum]

I’d assume that Doc captaining means no Coleman, no Egan and probably no Jimmy Mac. So if he’s playing a back 5:

Doherty Omobamidele Collins O’Shea O’Dowda

[tetsujin1979]

He could always put out a B side that's easily good enough to beat Latvia and do so without any fuss. It's Latvia for goodness sake.



That some of you are talking about these lads as if there should be any hint of a worry about something going wrong tomorrow shows just what a disaster we've become under Kenny. The mental scars of getting turned over by Luxembourg and all that obviously haven't fully healed yet.

Our second string should be beating them without any fuss. It would be particularly good for the guys who show up for every squad to sit on the bench to get a decent run out and feel involved. But by the sounds of it we're going to have quite a few of the first 11 involved because he's terrified of losing to a side who don't have anything like the players we have available to us.

Latvia have a decent away record recently. In the last three years, they've only lost to the Netherlands, Germany, and strangely Estonia. That Estonian game was their last away loss, and it came in June 2021. Granted, they haven't beaten anyone except minnows in the same timeframe - San Marino, Andorra, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, Moldova, and Liechtenstein - and only drew with Andorra in their last away game, in September.
Remember - our home record hasn't been stellar, although it is improving. We did win three of the six home games last year, so I'm not saying I expect a loss, just that it's not going to be as comfortable as the FIFA rankings might suggest.

[Kingdom]

You're saying McCarthy's reign was **** but not saying the same about Kenny's even though it's been far worse. You deny that you're a fanboy but that's not really coming across.

I'm an Ireland fanboy, obsessed with it, with all aspects of it and have been for years. I'm not a Kenny fanboy. He's a terrible front, his media performances are awful and are a serious impediment in the eyes of the public, because there will be some natural assumption that because he's uncomfortable in front of a camera, he won't be able to communicate to professional footballers. I don't believe that to be the case. I was also an adult when Brian Kerr was manager, and it was clear towards the end of his reign that senior players didn't believe in him. That's not the case in the present. It's not even close to the case now. I like Kenny because he's genuine, has some very good coaching routines, and knows how to punch above his weight. I think it was wrong to have designed the contracts that pulled him from the 21s midway through, as I think he'd have qualified them for the finals, and that to me was the more realistic goal. That's the past.

I like Kenny because there are glimpses that he is getting messages across to the players on what they should do and should not do. I was privileged to get to see some FAI/Ireland underage training/coaching sessions over the years. Troy Parrots goal in Dublin (can't remember who it was against) where Obafemi pulled the defender and two attacking players drew the covering players was an FAI training ground move. As soon as the two Irish wide players started to move, you could see what it was. The same with the 3rd goal in Luxembourg I think. That is an FAI move that kids learn from a young age (14/15) and it was translated into the senior team. So I think Kenny deserves a break. I struggle to understand peoples failure to grasp how low the stock of Irish footballers has dropped in the past 10 years. It is a nadir. And like it or not, we are used to playing **** football by and large for 20 years. And whether you like it or not, **** football - i.e. giving possession constantly back to the opposition - gets punished badly these days. It is not 1990.

Before the Luxembourg home game you were saying it's a gimme. Afterwards, you changed your tune.

I don't deny that I said Luxembourg at home was a gimme. I was of the opinion that our team's ability, particular the younger players, would be very confident going into the game of a win. I was wrong. It's ok to admit that. However, during that time (Not that's in anyway appropriate to be discussing personal business on a public forum, but I'll do it for once here) I happened to be in Luxembourg a few times a year, and a colleague of mine, her husband was the chairman of one of their big clubs until he died a few years ago. She's very knowledgable about Luxembourg and Irish football. She was advising of the work being done in underage football in Luxembourg, particularly taking advantage of the large (relatively speaking) migrant community there. There are links with Metz and Eintracht and Liege I think with their youth teams so that they are getting quality coaching.

Kenny inherited a squad who were mostly in their late 20's. In their prime. He had the exact same squad as Mick had bar Glenn Whelan, added to with a huge list of young talent and what did he achieve? We could barely score a goal and were left miles behind the heavyweights Wales and Finland while also getting knocked out of the Euros by Slovakia. As I said, McCarty's time wasn't great but at least he stood on his own two feet. Kenny had to get the Chelsea coach in to sort formations and style of play. So if you're looking for someone who could have come in, why not look at Anthony Barry?

So all this time that you're saying "get rid, get rid" the sole example of someone we should bring in is "the Chelsea coach" the current manager brought in, who left us at the first opportunity to assist an absolute bluffer who is despised in Belgium and who was so good, he was booted out by the Belgian FA as part of a house-clearing exercise a few months ago? That's the sole name you could come up, in the year you've been calling for Kenny's head? Do yourself a favour child and go away and do some bloody research to back up your points and then come back and have a conversation

Your key point is keystone players? McGoldrick? He played 14 times for Ireland and some of those 14 were when Kenny was in charge!

Didsy was the sole positive offensive unit during McCarthy's time. Maybe you can't understand that. Regardless of how many times he played for Ireland - that isn't Kenny's fault. It's the fault of coaches before him who couldn't utilise him better.
You don't think having a keystone player, a fulcrum is important to a National football team and being successful? If you say no, then you're a lost cause. By and large, no irish player right now - perhaps one exception (Ferguson) and I don't necessarily believe he is - is a fulcrum of their club team in a top division in the country they play in. Probably not in any division they play in (perhaps Cullen).
If you have 0 players, who know what it is like to get a team moving in the right direction or how to influence play in the opposition half, it is a very tall order to impose your style of play. You ask players to play beyond themselves. And that's where we're at right now and have been for a good while. That takes time to change. But I believe it will, with Kenny or without.

It's hilarious how far things have to be stretched to defend Kenny. McCarthy was gang pressed into picking young players but Kenny is a prophet for picking young players. You're acting as if Kenny's time hasn't been one failure after the next. Failed to qualify for Euro 2020, nearly came bottom in 2 Nations League campaigns, same with the World Cup campaign, he's lost to Luxembourg and Armenia, drawn with Azerbaijan and all this with a better squad than his predecessor! So you can rant away for another 22 years if you want, the actual facts will defeat you every time.

The hilarity is your inability to illustrate any capacity that your dogged haranguing of our Senior mens team manager could be in any way flawed. I repeat what I said in an earlier post - you work in absolute's and it's fanatical I'd nearly go so far as to call it peak barstoolerism. The above paragraph is a prime example. You say that it is hilarious how stretched the defence of Kenny has become. You yourself in a list of failures, use one absolute - failure to qualify for Euro 2020 which his predecessor did - while using an 'almost' in the next point.

What I judge is our players, and what a manager can get from them. We have players who quite simply have underperformed in nearly all pressure situations since Euro 2016. That is undeniable.
I actually don't know how you can say this manager has better squads than his predecessors.

[backstothewall]

Latvia have a decent away record recently. In the last three years, they've only lost to the Netherlands, Germany, and strangely Estonia. That Estonian game was their last away loss, and it came in June 2021. Granted, they haven't beaten anyone except minnows in the same timeframe - San Marino, Andorra, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, Moldova, and Liechtenstein - and only drew with Andorra in their last away game, in September.
Remember - our home record hasn't been stellar, although it is improving. We did win three of the six home games last year, so I'm not saying I expect a loss, just that it's not going to be as comfortable as the FIFA rankings might suggest.

All true. But my point is that it shouldn't be like this. I could accept the mediocre performances when I thought they were leading somewhere. We were at least, finally, passing the ball, and a lot of new young players were getting their chance. But at some point that has to evolve into some progress results, and we're well past the time when that should have happened. And now Kenny is so desperate for a result he's seemingly given up on the progression of new players in favour of a desperate push for results to try to take the bad look off the record.

Even for a second string this should be an easy win buy at least a couple of goals. It could have been a chance to hand out a debut or two and let the likes of Kelleher, Omobamidele, Sykes and Keane get a start.

------------------ Kelleher ------------------
Ebosele Omobamidele O'Shea McClean (c)
Sykes - Molumby - Smallbone - Hamilton
--------------- Parrott Keane ---------------

That side should beat Latvia, who have only a handful of guys playing outside their domestic league. We could maybe have involved someone like Tom Cannon from the bench and then let him and Ebosele drop down to the U21s. Meanwhile, the first team could have spent the entire week preparing for France and focusing on that.

But that's doesn't appear to be what's happening unfortunately. We seem to be going into the week worrying about not getting beat at home in a friendly against what can only be described as a minnow. I get the context of what has gone before but looking backwards like that is a dangerous business. What's done is done. While it's important to learn from the mistakes that have been made, the focus needs to be on the future.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I'm an Ireland fanboy, obsessed with it, with all aspects of it and have been for years. I'm not a Kenny fanboy. He's a terrible front, his media performances are awful and are a serious impediment in the eyes of the public, because there will be some natural assumption that because he's uncomfortable in front of a camera, he won't be able to communicate to professional footballers. I don't believe that to be the case. I was also an adult when Brian Kerr was manager, and it was clear towards the end of his reign that senior players didn't believe in him. That's not the case in the present. It's not even close to the case now. I like Kenny because he's genuine, has some very good coaching routines, and knows how to punch above his weight. I think it was wrong to have designed the contracts that pulled him from the 21s midway through, as I think he'd have qualified them for the finals, and that to me was the more realistic goal. That's the past.

I like Kenny because there are glimpses that he is getting messages across to the players on what they should do and should not do. I was privileged to get to see some FAI/Ireland underage training/coaching sessions over the years. Troy Parrots goal in Dublin (can't remember who it was against) where Obafemi pulled the defender and two attacking players drew the covering players was an FAI training ground move. As soon as the two Irish wide players started to move, you could see what it was. The same with the 3rd goal in Luxembourg I think. That is an FAI move that kids learn from a young age (14/15) and it was translated into the senior team. So I think Kenny deserves a break. I struggle to understand peoples failure to grasp how low the stock of Irish footballers has dropped in the past 10 years. It is a nadir. And like it or not, we are used to playing **** football by and large for 20 years. And whether you like it or not, **** football - i.e. giving possession constantly back to the opposition - gets punished badly these days. It is not 1990.


I don't deny that I said Luxembourg at home was a gimme. I was of the opinion that our team's ability, particular the younger players, would be very confident going into the game of a win. I was wrong. It's ok to admit that. However, during that time (Not that's in anyway appropriate to be discussing personal business on a public forum, but I'll do it for once here) I happened to be in Luxembourg a few times a year, and a colleague of mine, her husband was the chairman of one of their big clubs until he died a few years ago. She's very knowledgable about Luxembourg and Irish football. She was advising of the work being done in underage football in Luxembourg, particularly taking advantage of the large (relatively speaking) migrant community there. There are links with Metz and Eintracht and Liege I think with their youth teams so that they are getting quality coaching.




So all this time that you're saying "get rid, get rid" the sole example of someone we should bring in is "the Chelsea coach" the current manager brought in, who left us at the first opportunity to assist an absolute bluffer who is despised in Belgium and who was so good, he was booted out by the Belgian FA as part of a house-clearing exercise a few months ago? That's the sole name you could come up, in the year you've been calling for Kenny's head? Do yourself a favour child and go away and do some bloody research to back up your points and then come back and have a conversation


Didsy was the sole positive offensive unit during McCarthy's time. Maybe you can't understand that. Regardless of how many times he played for Ireland - that isn't Kenny's fault. It's the fault of coaches before him who couldn't utilise him better.
You don't think having a keystone player, a fulcrum is important to a National football team and being successful? If you say no, then you're a lost cause. By and large, no irish player right now - perhaps one exception (Ferguson) and I don't necessarily believe he is - is a fulcrum of their club team in a top division in the country they play in. Probably not in any division they play in (perhaps Cullen).
If you have 0 players, who know what it is like to get a team moving in the right direction or how to influence play in the opposition half, it is a very tall order to impose your style of play. You ask players to play beyond themselves. And that's where we're at right now and have been for a good while. That takes time to change. But I believe it will, with Kenny or without.



The hilarity is your inability to illustrate any capacity that your dogged haranguing of our Senior mens team manager could be in any way flawed. I repeat what I said in an earlier post - you work in absolute's and it's fanatical I'd nearly go so far as to call it peak barstoolerism. The above paragraph is a prime example. You say that it is hilarious how stretched the defence of Kenny has become. You yourself in a list of failures, use one absolute - failure to qualify for Euro 2020 which his predecessor did - while using an 'almost' in the next point.

What I judge is our players, and what a manager can get from them. We have players who quite simply have underperformed in nearly all pressure situations since Euro 2016. That is undeniable.
I actually don't know how you can say this manager has better squads than his predecessors.

I'm an Ireland fanboy and the last 2/3 years have been the worst since the 70's. That you have to throw out insults shows that you're rattled and can't argue your point. It's also ironic that you're calling me a child when you post like an erratic teenager!

You post walls of text but your argument can be summed up by the usual Kenny supporters line, our players are crap and other teams are better than they used to be. Of course, this ignores the fact that many of the teams we've faced would love to have a squad like ours. We lost to Armenia, do you think they'd swap our squad for theirs?

You're trying to paint the picture that Kenny supporters are the deep thinkers with superior knowledge of the game, while anyone else is a barstooler. A very arrogant attitude that is actually reflected by Kenny himself. He has had 4 big failures in his time in charge. That is undeniable. And having the same squad as his predecessor plus some of the best emerging players in a generation means he has a stronger squad.

As for a replacement, it's not my job to come up with names. Barry is an option, Carsley has been mentioned. We could go outside the box and look for an Ange Postecoglou type but that could be all irrelevant as the FAI might go back to an old school English manager. And the fault for that would lie at Kenny's feet and those who appointed him. His reign has set us backwards and it could take a long time to recover.

[tetsujin1979]

Can you both take it to your respective inboxes? I'm getting eyestrain reading the quoted replies

[tetsujin1979]

All true. But my point is that it shouldn't be like this. I could accept the mediocre performances when I thought they were leading somewhere. We were at least, finally, passing the ball, and a lot of new young players were getting their chance. But at some point that has to evolve into some progress results, and we're well past the time when that should have happened. And now Kenny is so desperate for a result he's seemingly given up on the progression of new players in favour of a desperate push for results to try to take the bad look off the record.

Even for a second string this should be an easy win buy at least a couple of goals. It could have been a chance to hand out a debut or two and let the likes of Kelleher, Omobamidele, Sykes and Keane get a start.

------------------ Kelleher ------------------
Ebosele Omobamidele O'Shea McClean (c)
Sykes - Molumby - Smallbone - Hamilton
--------------- Parrott Keane ---------------

That side should beat Latvia, who have only a handful of guys playing outside their domestic league. We could maybe have involved someone like Tom Cannon from the bench and then let him and Ebosele drop down to the U21s. Meanwhile, the first team could have spent the entire week preparing for France and focusing on that.

But that's doesn't appear to be what's happening unfortunately. We seem to be going into the week worrying about not getting beat at home in a friendly against what can only be described as a minnow. I get the context of what has gone before but looking backwards like that is a dangerous business. What's done is done. While it's important to learn from the mistakes that have been made, the focus needs to be on the future.

I'm not really worried about getting beaten, I'm just not saying that it definitely won't happen.

What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

[JR89]

I’d assume that Doc captaining means no Coleman, no Egan and probably no Jimmy Mac. So if he’s playing a back 5:

Doherty Omobamidele Collins O’Shea O’Dowda

No Cullen either you'd assume as he'd be my next choice of captain after Egan but McClean was given the captaincy ahead of him against Ukraine though. Definitely would have Cullen ahead of Doherty at least.

[texidub]

I hope Ogbene gets a chance beside Ferguson tonight. It's just a hunch, but I feel like he may be a better (more honest, and possibly less selfish) foil for Ferguson than Obafemi. If Obafemi works, great... but Ogbene deserves a shot too.

[backstothewall]

I'm not really worried about getting beaten, I'm just not saying that it definitely won't happen.

I'm worried about it. We're a wounded animal at the minute. Latvia know that. We would represent a very good scalp for them. That part of the reason why I would prefer a team made up of better players who won't have to play one game while considering another one.

Using Doherty as an example as we know he's going to play and I don't want to go over the Ferguson territory again (I'm not going to convnce anyone or change my own mind about that).

If I was in charge I would want Doherty to play against France. I imagine he will want to play against France, and will will be concerned about not picking up an injury tonight. If Latvia come to town intent on taking a robust approach to the game and tackles start flying in, we've all seen in the past how a team like Latvia can get a bit of momentum going and pull off a shock. Far better imho to give the opportunity of a run out at right back to Festy who would surely match his opposite number tackle for tackle without having any other concerns to deal with.

Ebosele has made a couple of squads as you say. If this game isn't the right opportunity to hand him a debut, what on earth is?

What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

As I said above, I think the reason we're seeing this change in approach is a manager with a losing record trying to retrospectively take the bad look off the last campaign, rather than preparing for the next one. That approach is doomed to failure.

[passinginterest]

Looking forward to the game later, it should be a pretty exciting mix in the team. Doherty, Collins, Omobamidele need minutes so fairly certain they start. Kelleher probably in goal. I'll be surprised if it's not Obafemi beside Ferguson as that's the most likely two to start against France and Obafemi needs minutes while Ferguson needs to get the first start nerves out of him. I thought in his first games for the under 21s Ferguson suffered from trying too hard and that was probably down to nerves so good to give him a start to help deal with that. The middle three is where it will be interesting. Presume Cullen will be rested given the volume of minutes he has played. I'd like to see Smallbone in that role, I though he was good when played deeper for the 21s, although there might still be some questions to answer about his defensive qualities. Hard to guess who will actually start in the middle, it's still the weakest area of the team and also the area where the players work the hardest and need the most recovery time so probably the most likely area to rotate completely between the games.

[paul_oshea]

I hope Ogbene gets a chance beside Ferguson tonight. It's just a hunch, but I feel like he may be a better (more honest, and possibly less selfish) foil for Ferguson than Obafemi. If Obafemi works, great... but Ogbene deserves a shot too.

Ya I get what you are saying. I mentioned a few pages back 2/3 of ogbene, obafemi and parrot with ferguson. Id like to see a half of all 3 of those to be honest. Then rotate Ogbene for Parrott ( or the other way around). Problem there is obafemi might not be fit enough to last that long. But its an interesting combination, what ferguson lacks in pace the other two offer and what ogbene lacks in game astuteness and tactical nous Ferguson appears to have in spades. It's an exciting prospect for a game like tonights.

[Kingdom]

I'm an Ireland fanboy and the last 2/3 years have been the worst since the 70's. That you have to throw out insults shows that you're rattled and can't argue your point. It's also ironic that you're calling me a child when you post like an erratic teenager!

You post walls of text but your argument can be summed up by the usual Kenny supporters line, our players are crap and other teams are better than they used to be. Of course, this ignores the fact that many of the teams we've faced would love to have a squad like ours. We lost to Armenia, do you think they'd swap our squad for theirs?

You're trying to paint the picture that Kenny supporters are the deep thinkers with superior knowledge of the game, while anyone else is a barstooler. A very arrogant attitude that is actually reflected by Kenny himself. He has had 4 big failures in his time in charge. That is undeniable. And having the same squad as his predecessor plus some of the best emerging players in a generation means he has a stronger squad.

As for a replacement, it's not my job to come up with names. Barry is an option, Carsley has been mentioned. We could go outside the box and look for an Ange Postecoglou type but that could be all irrelevant as the FAI might go back to an old school English manager. And the fault for that would lie at Kenny's feet and those who appointed him. His reign has set us backwards and it could take a long time to recover.

Anyone calling for a manager's removal has the onus of responsibility to propose an alternative.

[DeLorean]

Two tickets to the game tonight free to a good home. Seated together in upper tier. PM if interested (first come, first served).

[elatedscum]

I'm not really worried about getting beaten, I'm just not saying that it definitely won't happen.

What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

point taken - but i will say, the difference in talent between Rice and Grealish vs Smallbone, Ebosele, Hodge and Cannon is absolutely huge. Evan Ferguson is the only player to compare with their level of raw talent and he's been capped as quick as possible

[Eirambler]

Anyone calling for a manager's removal has the onus of responsibility to propose an alternative.

They really don't. It's not for supporters to propose managers when they have no idea who is available, interested or affordable. By all means, once names are linked, they can pass judgement, but proposing a new manager at this point is a nonsense really as (other than a report a while back that the FAI had spoken to Carsley) we have no idea who the likely candidates might be.

[SkStu]

Ya I get what you are saying. I mentioned a few pages back 2/3 of ogbene, obafemi and parrot with ferguson. Id like to see a half of all 3 of those to be honest. Then rotate Ogbene for Parrott ( or the other way around). Problem there is obafemi might not be fit enough to last that long. But its an interesting combination, what ferguson lacks in pace the other two offer and what ogbene lacks in game astuteness and tactical nous Ferguson appears to have in spades. It's an exciting prospect for a game like tonights.

I think Parrott would be the least effective beside Ferguson and think that the pace that both Obafemi and Ogbene bring would be very effective playing beside and around Evan. His touch and passing is very good - there were some really great flick passes he pulled off in a recent game so he sees the pitch and has great awareness of whats going on around him that i think could exploit their pace really well. Conversely, he is good in the box too and I can see games and goals where they've been played wide or into the box and Ferguson becomes the poacher. All in good time. My biggest fear in all this is that, as I think PassingInterest touched on, we are placing too much expectation on him. He'll be a top player for us but it wont happen overnight (cue hat-trick tonight - wishful thinking haha) so patience is the order of the day.

[Kingdom]

They really don't. It's not for supporters to propose managers when they have no idea who is available, interested or affordable. By all means, once names are linked, they can pass judgement, but proposing a new manager at this point is a nonsense really as (other than a report a while back that the FAI had spoken to Carsley) we have no idea who the likely candidates might be.

So, proposing a manager to be sacked without knowing the options/circumstances is acceptable, but proposing potential replacements is a nonsense?

[backstothewall]

Anyone calling for a manager's removal has the onus of responsibility to propose an alternative.

Lee Carsley
Stephen Reid

There's 2 potential, realistic replacements with suitable experience.

[JR89]

What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

Where has it been proven untrue though. None of those players are near the levels Grealish and Rice were, and are either not good enough to jump ship or wanted by another nation.

Do think he should have included Cannon with the seniors when you consider Will Keane is the sixth named CF, but also don't think England are gonna try poach him. Whoever is the next manager alright will have issues.

You'd likely have to drop back down again to the U19s if you were actually looking to cap lads to avoid issues from being poached with Albania trying to get Zefi and Ferizaj to switch. There's never been anything mentioned about Vata but Carr has said Zefi has been approached, possibly more than once, and think Ferizaj's father said they offered a senior call up to his son but definitely trying to get him to switch.