QuoteI didnt realise that our home gate average is bottom in LOI. It used to be Athlone town thats a bolt from the blue!
And arguably that's happening to a small extent, as a couple of other (non UCD) posters have noted.Originally Posted by John83
I didnt realise that our home gate average is bottom in LOI. It used to be Athlone town thats a bolt from the blue!
Gary Cronin is he the right man to manage Longford Town?
Here, they're called QUEUES in this part of the world!
Incorrect. Cork v Kerry on the June Bank Holiday weekend.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
Not linked to LOI, but just wondering EYG if you knew reasons why the Irish FA cup final attendance was so low last week, 9,688?
Seems a very small crowd for the NI showpiece final.
#DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), only Irish club to win a game / points in Europa League Group Stage (2016).
EYG will likely be more ITK than me, but the bare statistics suggest that whether "very small" or no, the crowd may still have been up with expectations?
This season Crusaders (1,607) and Ballymena (1,258) have had the 6th and 7th highest crowds respectively in the division. While last season's final between the two teams attracted 7,598 i.e. this year saw a 27% increase.
By contrast, this season's League Cup Final between Linfield and Coleraine drew 11,038. Obviously both teams have bigger support (LFC = 2,959, CFC = 2,748), but still, the LC is not so prestigious as the IC, nor does the winner qualify for Europe (IC winner does). I believe one of the reasons the LC Final has been drawing decent crowds recently may be because the NIFL is doing a better job of promoting it than the IFA does for the IC Final?
Anyhow, more general stuff here:
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/f...dances-4135608
Honestly I thought Cork were out of the Football Championship, I don't follow it closely at all.
I find that Linfield average as despairingly low for the biggest club in NI. ive seen their corporate strategies and they were impressive and ambitious but surely there is a lot of scope to increase thei average gates. Arguably easier for provincial clubs like Coleraine to incrementally build attendances though. Is playing the IC Final in Windsor an absolute must? If eg the Oval was developed to 10k capacity ground, among others, and the final will attract less than 10k, it makes a huge difference in the occaison to play in front of a near sellout than a very empty national stadium. From experience, Dundalk playing the FAI Cup Final in Landsdowne in 1993 in a largely empty stadium was awful even if we had won. Compared to 10 years later playing in front of a similar sized crowd but filling Tolka and it is one of the most memorable finals (relegated the week before even). Now of course crowds of 20k+ in the Aviva, with year on year growth bar the 1st final held there and the novelty factor boosting the crowd, attendances are sufficient to both justify using the National Stadium and generate some great atmospheres over the years of the annual Dundalk v Cork finals ear, and subsequent finals - well there is a feel good factor that the atmosphere is a catalyst for attendance growth. If IL Cup stepped back from Windsor and in to a ground where the atmosphere was white hot, it could lead to demand that would need a Windsor sized ground at some point - the event becomig a showpiece for all fans rather than just the 2 finalists?
Itd be a break from tradition which is a hard sell in NI in general but if Solitude is redeveloped and expanded as the home of Irish football it could tick a box or 2 on that.
Agree it's crap, esp for the self-styled "Biggest Club in Ireland (In Our Big, Fat Empty Heads)"
I'm not close to it by any means, but I believe part of the problem this season is that they had a very poor start to the season, with the grumbling starting early. And although they finished strongly to put in a challenge to Larne - almost - they've probably been sated by success, and weren't prepared to tolerate "failure". You know, by actually turning up and supporting the team.
Many suspect their official attendances are inflated eg by counting ST holders whether they attend or not, with kids ST's being especially cheap. Nonetheless CFC are doing a great job if they are getting close to nearly 3k in a town of 24k. Afaik they have established great links with the local community and businesses etc and have very impressive plans to redevelop the Showgrounds, funding permitting.
Fraid so. For if nothing else, the Irish Cup is an IFA competition, and the IFA (effectively) own* WP.
As for The Oval, if/when the idiots at Stormont ever should get their heads from out of their arses and stump up the money which has been promised for over a decade, then who knows what plans the IFA might have? Though I still doubt the IC Final would ever be played there. Perhaps if Linfield were playing some small provincial club like Dungannon or Newry?
* - I believe that technically, Linfield may retain the Freehold?
To some extent, but sadly I fear that IL club fans are very "tribal", in every sense of the word.
I'd love to see that happen, but unless I'm missing something, there doesn't appear to be the same stadium drive at Cliftonville as we see at one or two other clubs. (Though tbf, on the playing front they are going to go "hybrid full-time".)
Last edited by EalingGreen; 10/05/2023 at 5:18 PM.
These are still desperately disappointing figures for the showpiece final, I remember being at an FAI Cup in 1987 in Dalymount, Dundalk v Sham Rovers, less than 10k at (8,569 per google !!!) but that was a low point, there were some poor crowds while Aviva was being built, Tallaght and RDS, but the move to the Aviva seemed to kick start things.
The concern I would have for NI league is you have heard all year about the % increases in league games, yet less than 10k turn up to the main cup final.
Aviva FAI Cup Finals, mind you disappointing turn out for 2020 !
2010 Sligo Rovers 0 – 0 (a.e.t.) 2 – 0 (pen.) Shamrock Rovers Aviva Stadium 36,101
2011 Sligo Rovers 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 4 – 1 (pen.) Shelbourne Aviva Stadium 21,662
2012 Derry City 3 – 2 (a.e.t.) St. Patrick's Athletic Aviva Stadium 16,117
2013 Sligo Rovers 3–2 Drogheda United Aviva Stadium 17,573
2014 St. Patrick's Athletic 2–0 Derry City Aviva Stadium 17,038
2015 Dundalk 1 – 0 (a.e.t.) Cork City Aviva Stadium 25,103
2016 Cork City 1 – 0 (a.e.t.) Dundalk Aviva Stadium 26,400
2017 Cork City 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 5 – 3 (pen.) Dundalk Aviva Stadium 24,210
2018 Dundalk 2–1 Cork City Aviva Stadium 30,412
2019 Shamrock Rovers 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 4 – 2 (pen.) Dundalk Aviva Stadium 33,111
2020 Dundalk 4 – 2 (a.e.t.) Shamrock Rovers Aviva Stadium 0*
2021 St. Patrick's Athletic 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 4 – 3 (pen.) Bohemians Aviva Stadium 37,126
2022 Derry City 4–0 Shelbourne Aviva Stadium 32,412
*Covid
#DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), only Irish club to win a game / points in Europa League Group Stage (2016).
That's good to hear. Even when they took the lead against us it was a bit dead.
Obviously the whole thing is new to them and it's not like GAA where Kerry are scoring a point every few minutes!
Their game against us was the first crowd to dip below 1k and now another bit of a drop but realistically when they're losing pretty much every game the crowds are still good.
The first time I went (against Harps) I was surprised at how many young people and families were in the main stand.
I phoned the speaking clock to hear a voice speak, it said - "At the tone you will be very much alone"
I feel that all things considered, IL crowds hold up quite well when compared with LOI crowds, both in absolute and precentage increases terms.
But I agree that your cup final crowds leave the NI equivalent far behind. I'm not sure why, but I can think of two possible contributory factors.
1. Moving the FAI Cup Final to the AVIVA may have created a sense of "occasion" which we don't get with the IC Final. That is, with the other clubs already playing at Windsor 2 or 3 times a season, then trotting along for another game at the end of the season isn't such a big deal, for casual or neutral fans at least.
Whereas some LOI fans, or their mates/families etc may never actually attend the AVIVA if they don't also attend internationals. And I don't mean to disparage anyone, but I sometimes hear that some fans of the ROI football and Ireland rugby teams are "event junkies" i.e. happy for an excuse for a day out in Dublin. This may be overstated, and certainly shouldn't be a criticism of regular LOI fans etc, but maybe some (emphasise) LOI fans are a bit the same? For I think it fair to say that whatever else, fans of IL clubs are hardly event junkies or bandwaggoners!
2. The last two NI League Cup Finals have both attracted higher crowds (11,103 and 11,038) than the IC Final, which shouldn't ordinarily be the case. Now granted all three participants, Cliftonville, Linfield and Coleraine, have bigger fanbases than Crues and Ballymena. Nonetheless, I suspect the NIFL may have done a better job than the IFA of promoting their respective event. While both ILC finals were on a Sunday, which if not unknown for games in NI, is still unusual. I wonder whether fans who are involved in junior football themselves, and who therefore cannot attend a senior game on a Saturday in March, were now encouraged to go along on a Sunday?
Anyhow, while IC Final crowds are undoubtedly low, why do you think FAI Cup Finals have been so good?
EDIT: Just realised that this years ICF was also on a Sunday, so maybe that blows Theory No.2 out of the water! Doh!
Last edited by EalingGreen; 11/05/2023 at 2:38 PM.
I think FAI Cup finals do pick up a lot of neutrals - be that other LOI fans (I go most years as an example) but also I know several people who don't have an LOI club and go to the final every year. It doesn't explain the boost to numbers in the last few years of course but I think that's becoming a bit of a snowball down a hill now too - people go, have a great day with a genuine athmosphere and are more inclined to repeat the experience.
Very interesting. Have we been seeing the start of a "new tradition" in LOI football?
I am reminded of the Steel & Sons Cup Final in NI. This is a competition for intermediate teams, run by the Co.Antrim FA since 1895. The Final is traditionally held on Christmas Day morning at Seaview (Crusaders), with the likes of Dundela, Newington, East Belfast, Scirocco Works in recent finals, also the Reserve teams of Linfield, Glens, Cliftonville etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_%26_Sons_Cup
Thing is, the final regularly attracts a crowd in the low four figures, even when it involves teams who ordinarily struggle to attract 3 figure crowds for their league games. This is because there is a hardy band of football fans who attend regardless of who's playing, to meet up with old pals and enjoy a pint or two in the social club and set them up for the turkey and trifle later in the day. The football is just a bonus, if not a distraction!
Anyhow, it shows just how football fans are creatures of habit, with a warm respect for tradition - the game's Administrators take note.
Aviva 'experience' is just over a decade on the go though. Prior to that league grounds for FAI Cup Finals still comparable or better attendances. I do agree though, that there is a neutral contingent at cup finals especially since held in the Aviva. I make use of the posh tickets at cup finals that i wouldnt fork out pretty silly money for at internationals. Group of us put money together for a corporate box one year for the cup final and raffled it off for charity - a lot of small things that add up to decent cup final crowds eg affordability.
Definitely think this is a factor. I've gone to a few Irish Cup finals but as you say going to Windsor isn't particularly special for me because that's also where I go for Linfield games,
Not overstated at all! Ireland is an incredible nation of bandwagon jumpers. GAA fans are probably the most loyal in the country but for inter-county games there are only a handful of away trips a year. All-Ireland semi-finals never sell out but for finals tickets can be like hen's teeth!
Whereas some LOI fans, or their mates/families etc may never actually attend the AVIVA if they don't also attend internationals. And I don't mean to disparage anyone, but I sometimes hear that some fans of the ROI football and Ireland rugby teams are "event junkies" i.e. happy for an excuse for a day out in Dublin. This may be overstated, and certainly shouldn't be a criticism of regular LOI fans etc, but maybe some (emphasise) LOI fans are a bit the same? For I think it fair to say that whatever else, fans of IL clubs are hardly event junkies or bandwaggoners!
2. The last two NI League Cup Finals have both attracted higher crowds (11,103 and 11,038) than the IC Final, which shouldn't ordinarily be the case. Now granted all three participants, Cliftonville, Linfield and Coleraine, have bigger fanbases than Crues and Ballymena. Nonetheless, I suspect the NIFL may have done a better job than the IFA of promoting their respective event. While both ILC finals were on a Sunday, which if not unknown for games in NI, is still unusual. I wonder whether fans who are involved in junior football themselves, and who therefore cannot attend a senior game on a Saturday in March, were now encouraged to go along on a Sunday?
Anyhow, while IC Final crowds are undoubtedly low, why do you think FAI Cup Finals have been so good?
EDIT: Just realised that this years ICF was also on a Sunday, so maybe that blows Theory No.2 out of the water! Doh!
There definitely does seem to be a thing that NIFL are promoting the League Cup much better than the IFA promote the cup final. On Social Media in the fortnight up to the League Cup final I was seeing ads every day. Very little for the Cup Final.
A couple of other points... Probably the FAI have been lucky enough with recent finalists, quite often the top teams in the league (so support has been big during the season) and quite a few Dublin clubs, Bohs, Pat's, Shels and Rovers have all been at recent cup finals.
I think if you ended up with a Dundalk v Galway United final this year, for example, the crowd may only just go beyond 15k.
Finally the cheap tickets really seem to have worked out well. I think it's still only a tenner (maybe it was 15 last year) to go to it. I usually go to the Premium tickets and you see fans of all teams and loads of players there. It's kind of a real celebration of the end of the season really. To be fair to the FAI they have done a great job on that (and that goes back to the 'old' leadership).
I phoned the speaking clock to hear a voice speak, it said - "At the tone you will be very much alone"
How much are tickets to LOI or FAI Cup games?
For information, next year's IL prices have just been announced:
"The price for tickets at every Sports Direct Premiership game next season has been agreed, with adult tickets costing £13 and a child ticket costing £9.
That is a £1 increase from last season, which NIFL claims is 'balanced against the financial climate for supporters'.
Clubs will still be able to run promotions for selected games that will be available to both home and away fans, while they have also committed to combatting the abuse of concession tickets, particularly at all-ticket fixtures."
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/s...650050389.html
I assume these are cheaper than in ROI, while IL clubs' revenues from ticket sales are further reduced by the 20% VAT levied (also Derry City).
One interesting point is about all-ticket fixtures. For not only do these inhibit impulse, on-the-day purchases (obv), but many such games will have been declared all-ticket for H&S and Security reasons, with maximum capacities set at unreasonably low levels, esp for away supporters, thereby leading to lower attendances than might otherwise be the case.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 11/05/2023 at 4:56 PM.
EG for all LOI and FAI Cup games it was €15 last season for me a game. this season for the first time in a long while I got a season ticket maybe someone else might give a more accurate figure if things ave changed
Gary Cronin is he the right man to manage Longford Town?
Bohs tickets are 15 in the des kelly and 20 in the Jodi, season tickets are 250€ and full membership( ie part ownership with voting rights) is 365 pa.
https://twitter.com/NIStats/status/1...ngDe20E-g&s=19
Comparison of LoI v IL attendances.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
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