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Thread: Historical squad comparison

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    Historical squad comparison

    Just a personal view, but I think if the Ireland squad played a season together in the Championship under the right manager, they'd get promoted. Whether they'd stay up in the Premier League the following season is open to debate though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Well in the interests of balance, it's worth pointing out three of those Premier players are in serious danger of relegation, and Doherty is arguably a bit-part player who may be moving on in the summer.

    I'm not sure people were claiming we had a League 1 standard team either - though it was right to point out we had a lot of League 1 players in the squad. I think we had games with five of them on the pitch at one stage?
    Ah there was. The worst Ireland squad of all time and that kind of thing was floated around. I pointed out in a previous thread that it's far more difficult to reach the upper levels of the premier league than it was before. And even making it to the premier league is far more difficult. So some of our regulars will be at yo yo clubs but that doesn't make our squad weaker than it was in the past. I'd go as far as to say that this squad is stronger than many this century bar a player or two. And with the breakthroughs happening, I think our squad in a few years will rival anything we've had in a long time.

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    This century does include the squad that played in the world cup in 2002

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA View Post
    Ah there was. The worst Ireland squad of all time and that kind of thing was floated around.
    I think it can be the worst Ireland squad in living memory and not be League 1 standard though

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    This century does include the squad that played in the world cup in 2002
    Yes and I think a fair few of our current players would get on that team! Coleman, Doherty, Collins, Egan, McClean, Cullen and a few others would have a good chance of starting ahead of Breen, Old Staunton, Harte, Kilbane, Holland, Kinsella and the like.

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    I think we have recently had the worst squad in living memory, but I also think we have bottomed out and are slowly starting to build what could be a good squad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I think it can be the worst Ireland squad in living memory and not be League 1 standard though
    But that's what some people were saying. A league 1 standard and worst squad in living memory. I think we can park that as debunked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA View Post
    Yes and I think a fair few of our current players would get on that team! Coleman, Doherty, Collins, Egan, McClean, Cullen and a few others would have a good chance of starting ahead of Breen, Old Staunton, Harte, Kilbane, Holland, Kinsella and the like.
    Harte, Kilbane, Holland, Breen and Kinsella were all Premiership standard players. Breen was excellent in that World Cup especially. Id murder for Ian Harte or Kilbane at left back now. Holland and Kinsella would walk into our midfield.

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    Who was saying the squad was League 1 standard though?

    I don't think we ever had a team with more than 5 L1 players so the team/squad couldn't have been L1 standard

    But it still could have been the worst in living memory

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razors left peg View Post
    Harte, Kilbane, Holland, Breen and Kinsella were all Premiership standard players. Breen was excellent in that World Cup especially. Id murder for Ian Harte or Kilbane at left back now. Holland and Kinsella would walk into our midfield.
    I'd pick Doherty over Harte, McClean v Kilbane is a 50/50, I think Cullen gets ahead of one of Kinsella or Holland and we have subs that would get ahead of Breen. Duffy for example. If the players mentioned from 2002 were around now, they'd be playing in the championship. It's changed a lot since back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Who was saying the squad was League 1 standard though?

    I don't think we ever had a team with more than 5 L1 players so the team/squad couldn't have been L1 standard

    But it still could have been the worst in living memory
    I don't have their names but it was mentioned, I heard it at matches, I think after 1 of our embarrassing performances.

    Well I never thought we had a league 1 level squad so you may take it up with those who did.

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    I'd love to take it up with those who said it if you could let us know who said it

    It's clearly not true though, so not sure what's to be gained by countering a point no-one here is making

    On direct comparison, you may say Cullen now would be better than Kinsella/Holland 2002. I'm not sure I'd agree, but it's not the most outrageous suggestion ever. But the danger then is that you miss capturing the idea that standing still (Cullen v Holland) is, relatively speaking, going backwards. So I think the "weakest-ever" moniker is valid, even if it should rightly be in a relative sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA View Post
    I'd pick Doherty over Harte, McClean v Kilbane is a 50/50, I think Cullen gets ahead of one of Kinsella or Holland and we have subs that would get ahead of Breen. Duffy for example. If the players mentioned from 2002 were around now, they'd be playing in the championship. It's changed a lot since back then.
    Doherty isnt a left back though.

    I also think youre underestimating Kilbane too. He was good enough to play center midfield for us for a while, was man of match in Paris I think
    Last edited by Razors left peg; 26/01/2023 at 8:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Who was saying the squad was League 1 standard though?

    I don't think we ever had a team with more than 5 L1 players so the team/squad couldn't have been L1 standard

    But it still could have been the worst in living memory
    Mostly people seeking to defend Stephen Kenny after poor results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I'd love to take it up with those who said it if you could let us know who said it

    It's clearly not true though, so not sure what's to be gained by countering a point no-one here is making

    On direct comparison, you may say Cullen now would be better than Kinsella/Holland 2002. I'm not sure I'd agree, but it's not the most outrageous suggestion ever. But the danger then is that you miss capturing the idea that standing still (Cullen v Holland) is, relatively speaking, going backwards. So I think the "weakest-ever" moniker is valid, even if it should rightly be in a relative sense
    I told you, I don't know their names. ? Wasn't just talking about here also.

    I think McCarthy's squad was probably our weakest squad of this century but he still had some decent players to pick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razors left peg View Post
    Doherty isnt a left back though.

    I also think youre underestimating Kilbane too. He was good enough to play center midfield for us for a while, was man of match in Paris I think
    No but I'd pick him at left back ahead of Harte!

    Kilbane and McClean have similar attributes. Left back/left wing back/ left midfielder. Neither had the greatest skill level but a certain amount of pace and supreme dedication to Ireland. Kilbane was beside Keane in that game, that helps.

    I think people would agree that he wouldn't have near the amount of premium league appearances in the modern game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    Mostly people seeking to defend Stephen Kenny after poor results.
    That's true. Those people went overboard in slating our players. It was kind of ironic because the very same people were castigating previous managers who questioned our quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA View Post
    Yes and I think a fair few of our current players would get on that team! Coleman, Doherty, Collins, Egan, McClean, Cullen and a few others would have a good chance of starting ahead of Breen, Old Staunton, Harte, Kilbane, Holland, Kinsella and the like.
    To quote Game of Thrones….. “Oh you sweet summer child”

    That’s seeped in regency bias and clearly too young you have digested the calibre of players they were in 2002.

    The player Collins could eventually become, could get in.

    Or the player Coleman was, might challenge. Keeping in mind we had the 3 best right backs in England in our squads for the campaign. (Carrs injury notwithstanding). But if we’re doing a point in time comparison of today versus summer 2002 I’d probably only take Evan Ferguson ahead of the Clint as wild card gamble. At that point Clinton was only with us a short time and not in the team.
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    Spun this off into its own discussion
    Last edited by tetsujin1979; 26/01/2023 at 9:35 PM.
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    The best thing you can say about our current squad is that there are players with potential. Even our best players in this group have done very little if anything at a top level, barring Doherty and Coleman who have put together a solid body of work in the premier league. The 2002 squad pushed Spain to the brink of elimination, even after losing the team's strongest player. Maybe there were a few past their absolute peak, but they were high calibre players, many of whom had relatively long careers at big teams.

    I'm hopeful our young guys can take the next step but they have a lot to do.
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