Although some unproven I like that look of that squad. It gives us many facets and the ability to change it up if one system or formation isnt working for us. There'd always be the element of surprise too.Originally Posted by Eirambler
I think viewing the players of 2002 and even of today is all about from an Irish perspective. Matt Holland for example proved to be a pretty good player for us even if he had a fairly ordinary club career. I'm sure Ipswich and Charlton fans appreciated him as much as we did and that's a fair reflection of his level. But our level at the time was better than CHarlton and Ipswich.
Last edited by paul_oshea; 31/01/2023 at 11:17 AM.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I think this is a fair assessment. People are maybe remembering the best moments of players careers while ignoring their overall standard.
The truth is probably that our players from back then and now are quite average overall, apart from a few exceptions. I really don't think much separates them.
Were you even born when the 02 WC was played?
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
Not all of us are as young as you Kingdom.There are some good highlights of the 2002 matches on youtube if you need to see some of the things we're talking about.
So what I'm understanding here is that Boomers is too young to even have seen Roy Keane play, but may have seen some good YouTube clips... f@*$ me I'm starting to get old
You're getting into a habit of being wrong.
Tell me you've never met Kingdom without telling me you've never met KingdomYou're getting into a habit of being wrong.
You are the manager going into a world cup tomorrow. These are the players at your disposal today. Pick your 23 man squad and your preferred starting 11 and formation.
- World Cup 2002 final squad and Ireland Call ups in last 12 months (2022).
- have grouped these as logically as possible (442 v 343 v 352 makes it tricky)
Goalkeepers
Shay Given – 26 – Newcastle
Alan Kelly – 33 – Blackburn
Dean Kiely – 31 – Charlton
Gavin Bazunu – 20 – Southampton
Caoimhin Kelleger – 24 – Liverpool
Mark Travers – 23 – Bournemouth
Centre Backs
Kenny Cunningham – 30 – Wimbledon
Steve Staunton – 33 – Aston Villa
Gary Breen – 28 – Coventry City
Richard Dunne – 22 – Manchester City
Andy O’Brien – 22 – Newcastle
John Egan – 30 – Sheffield United
Shane Duffy – 31 – Fulham
Dara O’Shea – 23 – West Brom
Nathan Collins – 21 – Wolves
Darragh Lenihan – 28 – Middlesborough
Andrew Omobamidele – 20 – Norwich
Left Backs / Wing Backs
Ian Harte – 24 – Leeds
James McClean – 33 – Wigan
Liam Scales – 24 – Aberdeen
Ryan Manning – 26 – Swansea
Enda Stevens – 32 – Sheffield United
Right Backs / Wing Backs
Steve Finnan – 26 – Fulham
Gary Kelly – 27 – Leeds
Seamus Coleman – 34 – Everton
Matt Doherty – 31 – Atletico
Cyrus Christie – 30 – Hull
Centre Mids (6 & 8)
Roy Keane – 30 – Manchester United
Matt Holland – 28 – Ipswich Town
Mark Kinsella – 29 – Charlton Athletic
Steven Reid – 21 – Milwall
Lee Carsley – 28 – Everton
Jeff Hendrick – 30 – Reading
Alan Browne – 27 – Preston NE
Josh Cullen – 26 – Burnley
Jayson Molumby – 23 – West Brom
Jason Knight – 21 – Derby
Attacking Mids
Jamie McGrath – 26 – Dundee United
Mark Sykes – 25 – Bristol City
Will Smallbone – 22 – Stoke
Conor Hourihane – 31 – Derby
Connor Ronan – 25 – Colorado
Wide Attackers
Damien Duff – 23 – Blackburn
Kevin Kilbane – 25 – Sunderland
Jason McAteer – 30 – Sunderland
Callum Robinson – 27 Cardiff
Callum O’Dowda – 27 – Cardiff
Chiedoze Ogbene – 25 – Rotherham
Festy Ebosele – 20 – Udinese
CJ Hamilton – 27 – Blackpool
Centre Forwards
Robbie Keane – 21 – Leeds
Niall Quinn – 35 – Sunderland
Clinton Morrisson – 23 – Crystal Palace
David Connolly – 24 – Wimbledon
Michael Obafemi – 22 – Swansea
Evan Ferguson – 18 – Brighton
Scott Hogan – 30 – Birmingham
Will Keane – 30 – Wigan Athletic
Troy Parrott – 20 – Preston NE
Really? I got the impression he's a young lad just going on some of his posts and opinions I've read. It's hard to tell I suppose.
I stand by my earlier squad but, since SkStu's rules prevent me from picking Stephen Carr I'll replace him with Stephen Reid as a utility defender/midfielder (I considered Gary Kelly as a straight swap but I think he was past his best by 2002).
Shay Given
Gavin Bazunu
Caoimhin Kelleher
Steve Finnan
Stephen Reid
Matt Doherty
Ian Harte
Nathan Collins
John Egan
Kenny Cunningham
Dara O'Shea
Andrew Omobamidele
Roy Keane
Josh Cullen
Matt Holland
Mark Kinsella
Kevin Kilbane
Jason Knight
Damien Duff
Robbie Keane
Evan Ferguson
Niall Quinn
Michael Obafemi
This thread also got me thinking - where would Damien Duff play for us if he was in the squad today, we don't play wingers and left midfielder is barely even still a real position in the game now. Left wing back? Second striker? As a central attacking midfielder? Hard to know where he'd fit in.
Last edited by Eirambler; 31/01/2023 at 3:12 PM.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
I'll go 343
Given
Cunningham
Egan
Collins
Doherty (close call with Finnan tbh)
Keane (c)
Holland
Harte (dont fully trust Harte here, too slow, lacks focus, McClean on as impact sub)
Obafemi
Keane
Duff (on the left but license to roam creating a front two at times)
Last edited by SkStu; 31/01/2023 at 3:27 PM.
There are other players in the 2002 squad who would probably be automatic selections of they were playing now. Definitely Steven Reid, probably Clinton Morison and possibly David Connolly. Surely the acid test for comparing that squad with the present one (even allowing for the Kenny factor) is results. They got to the last 16 of a World Cup and were massively unlucky to lose to a decent Spanish team even without our pest player. I think Breen is the only member of that squad who would definitely not be in contention if he was playing today and Collins is the only current player who would make it into the starting 11 if he were playing then. The gulf is that big!
Goalkeepers
Given
Bazunu
Kelleher
Centre backs
Egan
O Shea
Collins
Left backs
Harte
McClean
Right backs
Finnan
Coleman
Doherty
Centre midfielders
Keane
Cullen
Holland
Reid
Attacking midfielder
Wide attackers
Duff
Kilbane
Mcateer
Centre forwards
Keane
Quinn
Morrison
Obefami
Ferguson
Starting 11 3-5-2
_________Given_________
___Collins Egan O'Shea__
Finnan_____________Doherty
____Cullen Keane Reid____
________Keane Duff_______
Totally agree for what its worth. Just trying to put a bit of manners on the threadand see how people might approach it if there was some structure applied to the question.
Eirambler is spot on though. Its almost impossible to do this because the two managers were picking players for vastly different formations.
Another thing I'm realising from this. Unless I'm forgetting anyone we haven't really had a genuinely good quality left back/left wing back since the 1990s. Harte obviously had ability but was slow and defensively suspect. After that there was Kilbane, Ward, McClean - mostly more attacking players who dropped back as they got older. Stevens - average enough. There's nobody obvious coming through in the position either. Seems to be a perennial problem position for us.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Goalkeepers
Shay Given – 26 – Newcastle
Dean Kiely – 31 – Charlton
Gavin Bazunu – 20 – Southampton
Centre Backs
Kenny Cunningham – 30 – Wimbledon
Steve Staunton – 33 – Aston Villa
John Egan – 30 – Sheffield United
Nathan Collins – 21 – Wolves
Left Backs / Wing Backs
Ian Harte – 24 – Leeds
Enda Stevens – 32 – Sheffield United
Right Backs / Wing Backs
Steve Finnan – 26 – Fulham
Matt Doherty – 31 – Atletico
Centre Mids (6 & 8)
Roy Keane – 30 – Manchester United
Matt Holland – 28 – Ipswich Town
Mark Kinsella – 29 – Charlton Athletic
Lee Carsley – 28 – Everton
Josh Cullen – 26 – Burnley
Attacking Mids
Wide Attackers
Damien Duff – 23 – Blackburn
Kevin Kilbane – 25 – Sunderland
Chiedoze Ogbene – 25 – Rotherham
Centre Forwards
Robbie Keane – 21 – Leeds
Niall Quinn – 35 – Sunderland
Michael Obafemi – 22 – Swansea
Evan Ferguson – 18 – Brighton
Tough to chose, I couldn't leave Quinn out, I don't think the other forwards have proven enough or have enough form to oust him. Connolly probably hard done by not to be ahead of Obafemi, but he was nearly always underwhelming on the international stage and got himself some stupid cards over the years too. Probably a but imbalanced and showing my own personal bias for some (although I loved McAteer as a player and it hurt to leave him out, but he was past his best at that stage). Stan keeps a place in the squad, he was pure quality, ok he was past his best too and lost pace, but his experience and ability on the ball was still there.
Might have to go with a 3-5-2 of some sort, tricky to fit Duff in too as his best position was no doubt as an out and out winger in a 4-4-2, Mourinho made him a much stronger defensive player later on, but don't think he'd have been a real wing back option.
Given
Egan
Cunningham
Collins
Kilbane
Keane
Holland
Duff
Finnan
Quinn
Keane
Duff in a good old fashioned "free" role, roving across the middle, drifting wide with Keane and Holland giving the rock solid centre to free him up. Kilbane for the work rate over Harte (I'll never forget how shocked I was at his positional sense the first time seeing him live). Quinn because he could still cause havoc and his relationship with Keane was so strong, Ferguson rotating with him off the bench. Obafemi as the wildcard. Ogbene for his attitude and versatility, I think Stephens is still a better wingback than McClean, or any of the other options if he's fit (that being rare lately, so he's there by a thread). Kiely was an excellent keeper and playing regularly as far as I can recall at the time, I think he'd have gotten in the squad ahead of Kelleher.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
That was what Brian Kerr said he was trying to do. Definitely gave him 'a free role' a few times, basically as a Number 10
Last edited by elatedscum; 31/01/2023 at 5:29 PM.
GK - Given
RB - Finnan
CB - Cunningham
CB - Collins
LB - Harte
RM - McAteer
CM - Roy Keane
CM - Cullen
LM - Duff
CF - Robbie Keane
CF - Morrison
Subs: Bazunu, Kiely; Doherty, D. O'Shea, Egan, G. Kelly; Kilbane, S. Reid, Holland, Kinsella; Quinn, Obafemi.
If we were playing the World Cup final tomorrow, that's what I'd pick. You'd have to go with top-flight experience, lads who played against internationals week-in, week-out, and had been part of a successful qualifying campaign, and done it against the likes of Portugal and Holland.
Cunningham was very hard-done-by to lose out to Staunton in that WC, imo, and would be a good foil for Collins. Finnan is nailed on. Harte for his set pieces and the paucity of better defensive options. Cullen just about gets in over Holland, though I'd be tempted to try Steven Reid beside Keane for the box-to-box athleticism and power he had back then, and the freedom Keane would allow him to get forward and unleash his cannon of a right foot. McAteer gets in on his form/goals in qualifying. Morrison over all of our current strikers, he'd scored over 60 career goals in the First Division before that World Cup, aged 23; Quinn didn't have 90 minutes in him, and Duff was much better on the left.
So, a 9-2 split in the starting lineup, and 16-7 in favour of 2002, with some recency bias. I think that just about reflects where we are now. 2002 wasn't a limited squad that fluked its way to the last sixteen. It was a very talented, experienced, tough, well-balanced group, well into its development, with several elite-level players, and others with elite club-level and prior WC experience.
Goalkeepers
Shay Given – 26 – Newcastle
Dean Kiely – 31 – Charlton
Gavin Bazunu – 20 – Southampton
Centre Backs
Kenny Cunningham – 30 – Wimbledon
Andy O’Brien – 22 – Newcastle
John Egan – 30 – Sheffield United
Gary Breen – 28 – Coventry City
Left Backs
Ian Harte – 24 – Leeds
Steve Staunton – 33 – Aston Villa
Right Backs
Steve Finnan – 26 – Fulham
Seamus Coleman – 34 – Everton
Centre Mids
Roy Keane – 30 – Manchester United
Matt Holland – 28 – Ipswich Town
Josh Cullen – 26 – Burnley
Steven Reid – 21 – Milwall
Left Wing
Damien Duff – 23 – Blackburn
Kevin Kilbane – 25 – Sunderland
Right Wing
Jason McAteer – 30 – Sunderland
Callum Robinson – 27 Cardiff
Centre Forwards
Robbie Keane – 21 – Leeds
Niall Quinn – 35 – Sunderland
Michael Obafemi – 22 – Swansea
Clinton Morrison – 23 – Crystal Palace
Gone with a mixture of youth an experience across the squad. Cullen over Kinsella and one from Obafemi/Parrott/Connolly was the only real difficult decision
Cheated a little by moving Staunton from central defence to left full, but he can cover both positions
Still not sure about Egan or O'Brien, but I thought Egan and Cunningham would be caught for paceCode:Team StartingXI Given Finnan Cunningham O’Brien Harte Robinson Keane Holland Duff Keane Morrison Substitutes Kiely, Bazunu, Egan, Breen, Staunton, Coleman, Cullen, Reid, , Kilbane, McAteer, Quinn, Morrison
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