Historical squad comparison

**tetsujin1979** · 27/01/2023, 9:27 AM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

It's a pity that this thread has been hijacked by the ultra sensitive pro Kenny faction, I thought it was interesting to compare squads from the past and present.

No, you made a broad sweeping statement that was at best inaccurate, and at worst just plain wrong. It's been challenged, examined, and, a few mild concessions apart, disproven.

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 27/01/2023, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

No, you made a broad sweeping statement that was at best inaccurate, and at worst just plain wrong. It's been challenged, examined, and, a few mild concessions apart, disproven.

About McCarthy having the weaker squad this century? I think that has been firmly backed up with evidence and put to bed.

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 27/01/2023, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Diggs246

2002 was a much better squad. Matter what way you look at it
21 year old john o Shea didn't make that WC squad. He would start in this team ahead of Dara I would think

Of course, no debate about that. Keane, Duff, Given are in our greatest of all time list. The debate is over the rest. Some 50/50's but I think we'd have 5-6 current players starting ahead of the 2002 team.

**dr_peepee** · 27/01/2023, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

John Egan would get ahead of either Breen or Staunton. In fact I don't think either of them would make our current squad!

Ah man! No way. Breen had his foibles at times but you’re grossly under rating him. Take any metric. Market value?. There was a period when he transferred for £2.5m at a time when the top defenders were moving for maybe a little more than twice that, even outside of England. Granted it was the mid 90s, pre Bosman and before the premier league was globalised to the current degree. but there’s no way Egans value would ever be tethered to the current premium going rate in the way Breens was. He was better than Egan is, by any metric.

**pineapple stu** · 27/01/2023, 11:18 AM

Linked with a move to Barcelona in his day, and would have moved to Inter in 2002 only he failed a medical. I don't think meh footballers get linked with moves to Barcelona or Inter, even back then. Robbie Keane went to Inter of course, and though they then changed manager and he was out of favour, his subsequent career clearly showed why they signed him in the first place.

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 27/01/2023, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Ah man! No way. Breen had his foibles at times but you’re grossly under rating him. Take any metric. Market value?. There was a period when he transferred for £2.5m at a time when the top defenders were moving for maybe a little more than twice that, even outside of England. Granted it was the mid 90s, pre Bosman and before the premier league was globalised to the current degree. but there’s no way Egans value would ever be tethered to the current premium going rate in the way Breens was. He was better than Egan is, by any metric.

It's a bit of an unfair comparison looking back as it's hard to remember exactly the players form etc at the time but if Coleman is getting ruled out now due to age or form then you have to look at Breen at that stage. Was he already released by Coventry at the time of the world cup or was he released after? West Ham picked him up but he didn't play much for them. So I think Egan would be ahead of him along with 3 or 4 others. If you're going on transfer fees then wouldn't Collins be ahead of him?

**SkStu** · 27/01/2023, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

It is objectively true because your point was very simplistic then and it still is. You're changing players quality based on where their club team plays. That's ridiculous. For example, Egan is on his way to get promoted, will he be a better player in a few months time because he's back in the premier league? If Collins gets relegated, he suddenly becomes a worse player? Nonsense. Kenny had practically the same squad as McCarthy but he also had numerous young players coming through. Bazunu, Kelleher, Collins, Omobamidele, O Shea, Cullen (Anderlecht move), Molumby, Knight, Idah, Obefami (makes a return). Objectively, Kenny clearly had a superior squad.

I might have missed it but what indicator are you using to gauge quality? Your BOOM or your SHAKALAKA?

**seanfhear** · 27/01/2023, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

Ok, I called Finnan wrong! I thought it was after the World Cup where he upped it big time. So we'll have Finnan in instead of Coleman. Over their careers though, I think it would be a tight call.

Finnan all day long ~ ~ Coleman has not been anywhere near the same player after breaking his leg.

**tetsujin1979** · 27/01/2023, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

It's a bit of an unfair comparison looking back as it's hard to remember exactly the players form etc at the time but if Coleman is getting ruled out now due to age or form then you have to look at Breen at that stage. Was he already released by Coventry at the time of the world cup or was he released after? West Ham picked him up but he didn't play much for them. So I think Egan would be ahead of him along with 3 or 4 others. If you're going on transfer fees then wouldn't Collins be ahead of him?

Breen wasn't released, his contract expired and he decided he was going to find another club.

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 27/01/2023, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by seanfhear

Finnan all day long ~ ~ Coleman has not been anywhere near the same player after breaking his leg.

Prime Finnan v prime Coleman?

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 27/01/2023, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Breen wasn't released, his contract expired and he decided he was going to find another club.

Oh right, like I said, it was a long time ago. He didn't really land on his feet though. Didn't play often for a relegated West Ham.

**seanfhear** · 27/01/2023, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

Prime Finnan v prime Coleman?

Maybe Prime Coleman ~ Coleman was very good going forward but was always a little bit dodgy defensively ~ ~ That weakness is even much more obvious now as he is declining ( sadly ) ~ Prime Finnan was also a very good player ~ it's very close.

**Eirambler** · 27/01/2023, 2:04 PM

I'd say prime Carr over either actually. Although prime Carr was on the scene for a relatively short period, but he was almost unplayable at one stage.

I think he gets forgotten about because he peaked at a young enough age and missed the 02 World Cup with injury.

**dr_peepee** · 27/01/2023, 2:23 PM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

It's a bit of an unfair comparison looking back as it's hard to remember exactly the players form etc at the time but if Coleman is getting ruled out now due to age or form then you have to look at Breen at that stage. Was he already released by Coventry at the time of the world cup or was he released after? West Ham picked him up but he didn't play much for them. So I think Egan would be ahead of him along with 3 or 4 others. If you're going on transfer fees then wouldn't Collins be ahead of him?

Collins of 2022 would not yet be ahead of Breen of 2002. In a few years, very likely……. Sure Dunne was in the 2002 squad and couldn’t get in ahead of Breen.

But your explicit statement was Egan over Breen. As pointed out, Breen wasn’t released from Coventry. He ran down the contract to capitalise on a lucrative move after the WC. He was a better player than you’re giving him credit for. He had his squeaky bum moments too though.

You’re also wrong about Stan!!

**Kingdom** · 27/01/2023, 2:24 PM

Boomshakalaka, this is a tad personal, but not asked in a manner designed to hurt: would you mind giving a rough idea of how old you are?

**seanfhear** · 27/01/2023, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

I'd say prime Carr over either actually. Although prime Carr was on the scene for a relatively short period, but he was almost unplayable at one stage.

I think he gets forgotten about because he peaked at a young enough age and missed the 02 World Cup with injury.

Stephen Carr was certainly one of those that ~ ~ Could have been very very very high level ~ Robbed of that by injury unfortunately.

Full backs for Ireland have had a particularly hard time of it e.g Dave Langan , Jimmy Holmes, Jim Beglin, Stephen Carr, Seamás Coleman ~ All of these had injuries that stopped them coming back to the level ( to various degrees ) they were previously at.

Is there something about the fullback positions that make full backs more prone to serious injury ~ I mean in football generally ? !

Maybe wingers as well but fullbacks for Ireland have a hell of a bad time of it ! !

**Eirambler** · 27/01/2023, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Collins of 2022 would not yet be ahead of Breen of 2002. In a few years, very likely……. Sure Dunne was in the 2002 squad and couldn’t get in ahead of Breen.

But your explicit statement was Egan over Breen. As pointed out, Breen wasn’t released from Coventry. He ran down the contract to capitalise on a lucrative move after the WC. He was a better player than you’re giving him credit for. He had his squeaky bum moments too though.

You’re also wrong about Stan!!

That was early years Dunne in fairness - seen at that point as someone with potential but he had serious lifestyle and weight management issues at that point. 2002 Dunne was in no way comparable to the player he went on to be 5 to 10 years later.

I've said my piece on Breen recently enough on here, so I won't go into it in too much detail again. He's seems like a lovely fella, but he's honestly one of the most overrated Irish players of the last 25 years. I'd have any of Egan, Collins or O'Shea (Dara) as they are today ahead of 2002 Gary Breen. Easily. I think people must have forgotten all his errors with the passing of time, but his concentration lapses, game after game, had to be seen to be believed.

**Razors left peg** · 27/01/2023, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

That was early years Dunne in fairness - seen at that point as someone with potential but he had serious lifestyle and weight management issues at that point. 2002 Dunne was in no way comparable to the player he went on to be 5 to 10 years later.

I've said my piece on Breen recently enough on here, so I won't go into it in too much detail again. He's seems like a lovely fella, but he's honestly one of the most overrated Irish players of the last 25 years. I'd have any of Egan, Collins or O'Shea (Dara) as they are today ahead of 2002 Gary Breen. Easily. I think people must have forgotten all his errors with the passing of time, but his concentration lapses, game after game, had to be seen to be believed.

But, but, but...didn't we all dream of a team of Gary Breens

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 27/01/2023, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Collins of 2022 would not yet be ahead of Breen of 2002. In a few years, very likely……. Sure Dunne was in the 2002 squad and couldn’t get in ahead of Breen.

But your explicit statement was Egan over Breen. As pointed out, Breen wasn’t released from Coventry. He ran down the contract to capitalise on a lucrative move after the WC. He was a better player than you’re giving him credit for. He had his squeaky bum moments too though.

You’re also wrong about Stan!!

The lucrative deal he got for West Ham which lasted a year? And then signed for Sunderland on a free. I've been to Wikipedia.

Yes, Egan over Breen but I'd also have Collins and Duffy ahead of 2002 Breen and Staunton.