Apart from the substitutions themselves, there was nobody warming up until around the 65th minute, so no player was in a position to come on until the 70th minute, at the earliest
At that stage, Norway had made three substitutions
Just looking at their last nine games since WC qualifying ended & its - D W L W L W L W W.Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Beaten Azerbaijan ( ! ) Israel, Kuwait and San Marino twice in those.
Apart from the substitutions themselves, there was nobody warming up until around the 65th minute, so no player was in a position to come on until the 70th minute, at the earliest
At that stage, Norway had made three substitutions
You don't need to be Sam Spade to work out that this could be a very tricky assignment.
Poor in-game management has been a feature of his time in charge.
Indecision, a reluctance and inability to identify problems and make the requisite alterations to personel and shape, and questionable substitutions, that often arrive far to late to be impactful, are all hallmarks of the Kenny era.
FWIW I disagree profoundly with those knocking Robinson. I thought he was our brightest player on the night.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Everyone to their own view, but if you watch it back there was an awful lot of possession breaking down with him when it shouldn't have. Failed to release, more then once too, didn't see the pass or just didn't play it. I thought he was weak tonight.
Not sure about brightest, but he was much improved in the second half. Having said that, I would have taken him off instead of Obafemi for Ogbene. He was shattered, whereas Obafemi still looked fresh
Wasn’t able to tune into the game at all today due to work but caught the “highlights” so to speak. All round seems a pretty dismal showing and those substitutions, Ferguson aside, are ridiculous. Because of the task he had in front of him and the tough hand he was dealt at times, I’ve been patient - some probably think too patient - but I wouldn’t be at all bothered at this point if he was to move on. The steps back continue to be bigger than the steps forward.
The thing I like about Robinson is how often he seems able to wriggle past a defender or find some other way to bring the ball into dangerous areas. He tries things, and sometimes that means giving it away, but so be it. Forwards have to take risks to make to things happen.
I like him.
I don't think there's any future with Kenny. He's built a good foundation but I no longer think he's the man to build on it. His in game management hasn't improved since the Luxembourg loss. Too many times we have been crying out for subs long before he makes them and invariably he makes wrong ones.
There's no consistency and its starting to feel the good performances are far far outweighed by the bad ones
Well, that's 90 minutes of my life I won't get back. Just to echo what's been said here about how bad that was, especially the first half - the most striking thing was how often we got squeezed in possession by a fairly tame press and forced back to Bazunu - incidentally, having watched Kelleher in the League Cup game, I now see how his superior ability on the ball could make him a better option if we insist on this style of play - he actually presents an option to keep a passing move going, whereas Bazunu is an outlet when we've run out of options, if you get my drift.
I don't even see how that type of football is considered pleasing to watch - I was bored to tears. I'd now be happier if we gave the ball away more regularly just getting it up there and then fighting to get it back - just give it a lash. It's really depressing that we're now accepting a dogfight for a distant third in our qualifying group is the best we can hope for. Barring a miraculous turnaround, this can't go on beyond this campaign - we wasted six of the peak years of Keane, Duff, O'Shea, Dunne, Given, Finnan, Reid etc with managers who just were not up to this level - let's not do it again with the youngsters coming through. We need somebody with solid Championship experience, at least
I like him too. He was our brightest player for a decent spell last year. But I thought he was well off it last night.
That'd change with a genuinely creative footballer in Browne's position imho. We had good width last night, but that's all we had and Norway knew it.
I thought the only reason we had width was because Norway were forcing our wingers out wide! O'Dowda was being isolated, and the supply to Doherty was being blocked, I guessed he had been identified as a danger so the ball was kept away from him
Well surely that only amplifies the absence of a creative player ahead of Molumby and Cullen?
I've seen nothing different from the first couple of games and what we saw last night. Or to be honest most other nights. I'm genuinely interested to understand what others saw that's anyway different, genuinely different, to what we saw last night and previous nights. What's also interesting for those who watch Ireland on a more adhoc basis there's still a sense of " we're good to watch ", " who else could you get ". Strange how some less frequent Irish footballing people think kicking the ball around the back is better to watch
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I thought we were worse last night that we have been in a long while. Most of the time under Kenny you can at least see what we're trying to do in terms of neat passing football; we're just not good enough to do it.
Last night, Cullen played facing his own defence for most of the time, and the defenders racked up a big number of passes between themselves. Largely useless stuff.
I've also said on here before that I try not to read anything into managers' post-game comments because they're usually about trying to give as little away as possible. But Kenny's post-game comments often seem completely removed from what happened in the game, as Hamann called out last night, and it really doesn't help inspire confidence if the manager can't articulate why we were so flat and instead defends the performance.
It's a tough one to quantify. In other games there was always a sense of urgency or a sense that with the possession, if not clear chances, at least danger was being created. Norway were so comfortable defending the balls into the box that there wasn't even a sense of danger to create some excitement. It was a weird game, Norway played more like you expect the smaller teams to play, very compact, happy to hit on the break but with more quality that the average minnow and we've been completely toothless in those scenarios far too often. The really frustrating thing is that Norway didn't score from a chance created in open play, so there's certainly an argument that the overall system worked ok in many respects, but we conceded two very basic set pieces.
At the other end, Obafemi needs either a big man or a creative 10 beside him, to get on the ball and play it in behind for him. Himself and Robinson just didn't work, I'm not sure Obafemi had more than two touches in the first half, we couldn't get the ball near him. I do feel a bit for Kenny in that the three biggest stars from his under 21s, that we had high hopes for in terms of attacking options have all failed to make the impact we needed. Idah, Parrott and Connolly were the players we thought might bridge the Robbie Keane goal scoring chasm but they've all hit issues with injury, form or attitude. Robinson keeps floating around championship teams because he's maddeningly inconsistent, and none of the other options (Hogan, Keane, etc. look like they'll be any better and missed a big chance in this window).
I do believe that the more possession-based game is the way forward. Again, statistically we ended up with more shots, more corners, more possession, all things that should be helping us to win more games. The longer we struggle to create and score the more it looks like Kenny might be finished, the main think I'd look for from another manager would be more dynamic in game management and active use of subs. Smallbone or McGrath might well have offered something more in terms of unlocking Norway if they'd been given a half hour and instead we got 15 minutes of Hendrick. That's the way to lose support quickly (and I wouldn't be as critical of Hendrick in general as many)!
Last edited by passinginterest; 18/11/2022 at 9:31 AM.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tallaght Stadium Regular
I think that’s a bit of confirmation bias, which is understandable. What we saw last night was a regression back to the Kennyball we saw pre-Anthony Barry. Lots of pointless passing from defender to defender pumping the stats.
I do too. Kenny may not be the man to deliver it but the mindset/philosophy that we’re an inferior footballing nation who must be direct to be competitive has to stay in the past. And I think we’re far enough into that journey now to think it’s worth continuing. We now have two goalkeepers who can use their feet well (Baz made a bad mistake last night but I still think he’s generally very accurate), three or four CBs who can use the ball and two or three CMs keen to get on the ball. That’s a good foundation and I think there are emerging players who can contribute to a contemporary style of playing too.
Despite justified criticism I think there has been a big positive step forward taken since the final days of MON and the worst games of Mick Season 2 (which were against the lesser teams) and I think if nothing else Kenny has integrated several young players who will be the mainstay of the side for a decade. The frustration is that others (Idah, Parrott, Connolly…) have had setbacks of various types and I think opportunities to make further progress have been frustrated by external factors but also very definitely self-inflicted ones.
(PS: did anyone notice a passage of play around 25 mins last night when Doc had got past his man and was in prime position to receive a basic ball between full back and centre back and would almost certainly have been able to shoot or put in a square ball on the deck, but our midfilder (Browne?) saw the run and instead turned back into midfield. It didn't need a player of Odergaard's ability to play such a simple and obvious pass.)
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 18/11/2022 at 10:22 AM.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks