Steaua v Shels 2nd Leg Official Thread

**Vitruvian Man** · 03/08/2005, 8:09 PM

Originally Posted by Passive

Comparing Shels and Bucharest is not comparing like with like. One is a multi-million euro industry still cloaked in the shadow of totalitarianism and probably laundering money to pay unbelievably high wages, and the other are a decent side from Romania

LOL

**pineapple stu** · 03/08/2005, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by �anna

Fenlon is a fool. If he'd started Ndo and Fleming (plus maybe Hoolahan) Shels would have won this. Baker and Crawley are brutal and have cost them dearly.

Originally Posted by Vitruvian Man

I actually think that Shels suffered from their lack of ambition in Tolka park. Steau were there for the beating in the first leg but Nutsy decided to play for 0-0.

Originally Posted by harry crumb

I know it was a tough match for Shels but Pat Fenlon must shoulder some blame for that performance.

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Some of Fenlon's team selections seem poor.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Fenlon isn't a great manager. Obviously, can't argue with what he's won (on the biggest budget in the league), but he has seems to have a habit of making poor tactical decisions. Whatever about Hoolihan (who was supposed to be carrying an injury and not fit enough for 90 minutes), Ndo looked class as well when he came on, yet he only got ten minutes over the two legs. Crawley looked the weakest link last year as well as this, yet Fenlon keeps him in because of his European experience. This over a ten-times capped Irish international who also has European experience! Fleming hardly put a foot wrong, I thought. Crawley hardly put a foot right. When Shels had a go, they weren't far off matching Steaua (who deserved to go through on what I saw tonight; didn't see the home leg).

Still, 4-1 was harsh, which at least is an improvement on the last time an Irish (club) side played out in Bucharest. We've gotten more coefficient points than last year already, and Cork are still in. So it's not all bad!

**TheOwl** · 03/08/2005, 8:19 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Was like the Battle of Bucharest especially in the first half. All Shels seemed to know was to either dive or fight.

Shels were hopeless again until decided to go for it in the 2nd half. Fullbacks again hoofed the ball aimlessly into the corners with no forward nearby.

Crawley was again worse than uselss. Fleming made a hude difference when he came on. Harris was also very poor. Moore did feck all except kick.

I think eL sides need to learn that have to try to win home legs. When we sit back with 5 in midfield we are less effective. Cork City were just as guilty as Shels this season but at least had 2 nil lead. Teams need to use advantage of tight home grounds & summer fitness if want to consistently progress in Europe.

Would agree with most of this (especially about pushing on at home), although I thought Harris had a decent game. He had to shoulder a lot of responsibility back there for a guy who hasn't played much this season, and I thought he did ok.

**Poor Student** · 03/08/2005, 8:21 PM

In Fenlon's defence he is a very young manager. I hope he cops on and learns though instead of repeating the same mistakes his whole career. He has more European experience than practically any manager in eL history.

**pineapple stu** · 03/08/2005, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I'm investigating it on a site that's good on European competitions to see what they've heard.

Ah the joys of the internet! You have one reply suggesting that it's never been more popular and that the replyer is "pretty sure" there'll be a competition next year.

Originally Posted by Poor Student

In Fenlon's defence he is a very young manager. I hope he cops on and learns though instead of repeating the same mistakes his whole career.

Meh. He's around three years now - enough to know that if you've got the best player in the league by a distance, you don't keep him on the bench. As for repeating mistakes, the Hibernians result was probably the worst result in recent eL history (even Longford managed to beat Carmarthen in one game, but Shels couldn't beat them in either leg) due in part to Fenlon knowing a draw would suffice (in part also due to bad luck and bad refereeing), yet against KR the next year, he went for the same risky tactics. They worked that time, but it doesn't bode well for learning from mistakes.

**Poor Student** · 03/08/2005, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ah the joys of the internet! You have one reply suggesting that it's never been more popular and that the replyer is "pretty sure" there'll be a competition next year.

I'd somehow have assumed Bert Kassies forum would have a group of hardcore researchers updating me on the answer to my question quoting a UEFA committee meeting in seconds.

**TheOwl** · 03/08/2005, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

In Fenlon's defence he is a very young manager. I hope he cops on and learns though instead of repeating the same mistakes his whole career. He has more European experience than practically any manager in eL history.

I think he misses Alan Matthews/John McDonnell. It may be extremely harsh to suggest but Shels "slump" (if you can call it that) has come since Eamon Collins arrived at the club.

Must say I was disappointed with the 5-man trick being repeated this year. I thought it suited our personnel last year, but I also thought the signing of Crowe would have changed that.

**A face** · 03/08/2005, 8:33 PM

Pat Fenlon has to shoulder all of the blame.

He didn't pick the team to do the job and they lost as a result.

The sendings off were mad and alot of errors but doesn't take it away .... Shels didn't have their best possible team on the pitch for the job and Fenlon is answerable for that.

Hoolahan and Ndo .... glaring holes in Shels game and when they came on ... they proved it.

Crawley and Cahill were soo sooo bad tonight. Cahill was unreal, what a nightmare he was having .... in a game where everyone on the pitch has to put in 110% .... lord above .... never had a chance on that side.

Where is Williams ..... Fair play for playing Delaney and all credit for trying him out .... its done now ... and we all know it hasn't worked .... has he burnt the drawing board ..... Williams needed to be there tonight end of.

And there was really beatable tonight ..... has beens ... there for the taking if Shels wanted to. The scoreline was not a reflection of how that game went.

I said it last week ..... If Fenlon picked the right attacking team and played positive forward football it was possible ... he didn't pick that team ..... Shels didn't deserve anything out of it so they cant complain.

**Poor Student** · 03/08/2005, 8:34 PM

The problem is, I felt his tactics were poor in Europe last season and they somehow luckily got by to face Deportivo. I feel perhaps this has set Fenlon back a bit in how he should approach European games tactically. Irish teams must adopt a positive attitude more like they did against Glens. In the first game a five man midfield containing Jason Byrne was stupid. If you're going to play a 5 man midfield, play 5 midfielders! You don't need to show Steaua that much respect anyway as to play one striker. Shels have a decent pair of strikers, they should have started them.

**TheOwl** · 03/08/2005, 8:36 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Irish teams must adopt a positive attitude more like they did against Glens. In the first game a five man midfield containing Jason Byrne was stupid. If you're going to play a 5 man midfield, play 5 midfielders! You don't need to show Steaua that much respect anyway as to play on striker. Shels have a decent pair of strikers, they should have started them.

Spot on!

**A face** · 03/08/2005, 8:38 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

In Fenlon's defence he is a very young manager

Pat Fenlon played with Bohs against Bordeaux and were really unlucky to not get anything out of that game, with an unreal lineup to play against .... he was unreal himself that night and more than held his own .... all end to end ... attaching football. IF they sat back that night .... they would have been hammered.

Shels have an easier job tonight and sat back/played negative football/didn't give themselves the best chance.

Fenlon is around long enough to know what kind of a game had to be played tonight .... he failed to pick the team for it ...... it is his fault. No excuses !!

**Poor Student** · 03/08/2005, 8:43 PM

Rosenborg were hammered 5-1 tonight by Fredrikstad. It seems they really are there for the taking.

**hoopy** · 03/08/2005, 8:47 PM

Shels opponents are an average team so this 'unlucky' tag they will no doubt get is rubbish. Lack of ambition, lack of courage, call it what you like. The basic truth is that while we all(rightly) have a go at the FAI for their lack of involvement in our league, let's look closer to home at our managers (maybe not Rico this year, we'll see) who continue to put out teams to try not to lose instead of trying to win against non match fit sides. Remember that used to be our excuse when our sides were in pre season

**pineapple stu** · 03/08/2005, 8:47 PM

What's happened there, incidentally? If they don't get into the Group Stages this year, they could be looking at serious financial problems surely?

Valerenga won 4-1 against Haka today with Steffen Iversen and Tore Andre Flo scoring!

**harry crumb** · 03/08/2005, 8:49 PM

Originally Posted by hoopy

Shels opponents are an average team so this 'unlucky' tag they will no doubt get is rubbish. Lack of ambition, lack of courage, call it what you like. The basic truth is that while we all(rightly) have a go at the FAI for their lack of involvement in our league, let's look closer to home at our managers (maybe not Rico this year, we'll see) who continue to put out teams to try not to lose instead of trying to win against non match fit sides. Remember that used to be our excuse when our sides were in pre season

Totally agree.

**Vitruvian Man** · 03/08/2005, 9:00 PM

Are there any Longford fans who want to call for Shels to be banned from representing the country in European football again.

**A face** · 03/08/2005, 9:01 PM

Originally Posted by hoopy

Shels opponents are an average team so this 'unlucky' tag they will no doubt get is rubbish. Lack of ambition, lack of courage, call it what you like. The basic truth is that while we all(rightly) have a go at the FAI for their lack of involvement in our league, let's look closer to home at our managers (maybe not Rico this year, we'll see) who continue to put out teams to try not to lose instead of trying to win against non match fit sides. Remember that used to be our excuse when our sides were in pre season

Yeah .... have to agree with you there.

To be honest ..... if it was good football played by Shels tonight, i wouldn't mind that 4:1 scoreline .... if it was entertaining, quality football .... this 'play it safe' and 'stop the play' and 'pack the midfield' worked ... i'll give you that but the game is up now.

Shels didn't play ball and were punished. What is p!ssing me off is that (a) they didn't give themselves the best chance and (b) if they had, they could have strolled away with it, knocked two goals in and enjoy the rest of it ...... it would have been Shels fans cheering each pass at the end.

Ahh ...F�ck it anyway !!

Another thing is if we had a constructive media that could evaluate the game properly, in a balanced informed way .... the message might filter across but .... the papers tomorrow ..... have a look and just see how they report this game ..... and whats even better is looking for a motive as to why they report this way !!

**pete** · 03/08/2005, 9:05 PM

I thought it was very strange to play Jason Byrne in midfield where he doesn't offer much. If going to play 1 forward then drop either Crowe or Byrne!

Steaua Manager again...

Even though they have yet to beat the Irish champions, Becali was in bullish mood after the draw. "Our executive president Mihai Stoica told me that Rosenborg were the most beatable seeded team in the draw," he said. "We are 80 per cent qualified for the group stage."

**thejollyrodger** · 03/08/2005, 9:05 PM

Shels are an ok side with some good players. Steaua are better technically and better team overall. Still in saying that, we shouldnt have let in 4 goals like that.

The tatics for europe have to be looked at. Were not really a defensive team and i dont know where felon got the impression we could soak up attacking football for 80 odd minutes.

The amount of bad individual errors was unbelivable. Its like looking at rabbits caught in a headlight trying to clear the ball. There was very little composure in the side until the subs came on. Curtis Fleming may be old but he looks the business IMO. Very composed, reliable, makes few howlers.

Fenlon has to rebuild the team. The team needs serious cash to put a team together that can make it to the 3rd round. Rosenborg were there ready to be knocked out.

**razor** · 03/08/2005, 9:11 PM

Crawley had a right "Longford" tonight, Delaney looked shaky and nervous with errors to match, Cahill ? Was he playing?
Losing Rodgers so early seemed to unsettle them though after Shels hit the post at 0-0 Steaua looked a bit nervy.
Too many non performers tonight for Shels.
Didn't hear Nutsy afterwards but I presume it went like "You can't be making those sort of mistakes at this level cos these type of teams will punish you" yada yada yada.
If Shels had been tight and hadn't made mistakes at the back it could have been 1-1.