2023 UEFA European Under-17 Championship

**pineapple stu** · 12/05/2023, 4:35 PM

And we won't have the facilities to develop them properly while we let them go on the cheap as soon as they're old enough to flee.

There will always be an exception (like Ferguson) who can make an impact much earlier. But by and large it's not something we should aspire to for everyone. The most recent transfer windows have shown it's never been easier to move from the LoI to England, and going over at 21 straight into a first team (after 3-4 years of first team football) can't be much worse than spending the time in an academy.

**Eirambler** · 12/05/2023, 4:51 PM

Realistically the ones going over straight to first team football at 21/22 are going in at League 1 level at best (Andy Lyons got a few months at the bottom of the Championship but he's going to League 1 now too). So they're already playing catch up at 21 and, even if they're good enough to eventually reach the top flight won't get there until 24 or 25 at best.

The stats are out there in terms of the hours of football contact available to those that go compared to those that stay, and they don't make for pretty reading. We can't hold back a generation of players because it might help us develop better facilities somehow, and we couldn't even if we wanted to. Players who get the opportunity will go if they want to, and they do want to.

They're two separate issues, create setups in Ireland that allow players to reach their full potential at home and then players will be happy to stay on. But, as things stand, these lads are absolutely playing for a possible better future overseas in this tournament.

**elatedscum** · 12/05/2023, 5:03 PM

Disappointed that Shaun Wade and Trent Kone Doherty didn't make it. Not sure if it's injury or what. Two really exciting attacking wingers.

I�d prefer Dodd or McAndrew over Bartley. I wonder whatever happened to Gabriel Gartside-Kelly and Cian Morling.

**nigel-harps1954** · 12/05/2023, 5:26 PM

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Disappointed that Shaun Wade and Trent Kone Doherty didn't make it. Not sure if it's injury or what. Two really exciting attacking wingers.

I�d prefer Dodd or McAndrew over Bartley. I wonder whatever happened to Gabriel Gartside-Kelly and Cian Morling.

Niall McAndrew and Trent Kone-Doherty miss out through injury. Mentioned in FAI press release.

**nigel-harps1954** · 12/05/2023, 5:28 PM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

Realistically the ones going over straight to first team football at 21/22 are going in at League 1 level at best (Andy Lyons got a few months at the bottom of the Championship but he's going to League 1 now too). So they're already playing catch up at 21 and, even if they're good enough to eventually reach the top flight won't get there until 24 or 25 at best.

The stats are out there in terms of the hours of football contact available to those that go compared to those that stay, and they don't make for pretty reading. We can't hold back a generation of players because it might help us develop better facilities somehow, and we couldn't even if we wanted to. Players who get the opportunity will go if they want to, and they do want to.

They're two separate issues, create setups in Ireland that allow players to reach their full potential at home and then players will be happy to stay on. But, as things stand, these lads are absolutely playing for a possible better future overseas in this tournament.

The bit in bold is arguably the reason we are the in the state we are in with facilities. Constantly kicking the can down the road has left us behind most of Europe in terms of facilities and youth structure.

We're proving that we're getting it right on the pitch, with coaching and development of players. Contact hours are gradually improving, but facilities and full time coaching staff are still lagging behind and I think it needs sorted sooner rather than later.

I'm not sure who's being held back either, I'd rather see a lad staying in Ireland until 21 and making a good career for himself at League One level rather than being churned out by the English academy system and being lost to football altogether.

**elatedscum** · 12/05/2023, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Niall McAndrew and Trent Kone-Doherty miss out through injury. Mentioned in FAI press release.

reptracker on twitter is saying that Wade and Kelly are both injured as well. Makes a lot of sense. Basically just leaves Anto Dodd as the only lad missing out.

Fair play to Ade Solanke. Saw him play the two games against Latvia for the 15s at left back and centre back. There's never been an u15 to play for Ireland in the u17 championships. Can't think of anyone who even played a qualifier. Speaks to what a unique achievement that is

**liamoo11** · 12/05/2023, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We really need to move away from that sort of attitude tbh. Far better for their development and Irish football in general to move at 21 or so, with a couple of years' senior football (including some European games) under their belts, and for a proper transfer fee.

I think it depends how they are treated. Look at ferizaj at shamrock rovers this season has been a write off so far for him no sign rovers are prioritising his development , he would be better off in a top academy if that's going to continue

**nigel-harps1954** · 12/05/2023, 7:44 PM

Originally Posted by liamoo11

I think it depends how they are treated. Look at ferizaj at shamrock rovers this season has been a write off so far for him no sign rovers are prioritising his development , he would be better off in a top academy if that's going to continue

Is there some sort of rule that says he must play? He's been playing with the under-19 side there. How are they not prioritising development? The lad is just turned 18..

**liamoo11** · 12/05/2023, 8:19 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Is there some sort of rule that says he must play? He's been playing with the under-19 side there. How are they not prioritising development? The lad is just turned 18..

Exactly there is no rule just like there was no rule that celtic should have played connell in their side. All professional clubs will do what's best for them not individual players. That's why it's wrong to think players staying in the loi is going to be superior to moving to the UK , one sub bench is the same as the other. Under 19 loi football is not developing fetizaj that's for sure

**liamoo11** · 12/05/2023, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by JR89

Ireland Men�s Under-17 Euro Squad

Goalkeepers: Joe Collins (Bohemians), Jason Healy (Waterford)

Defenders: Stanley Ashbee (Hull City), Daniel Babb (UCD), Jake Grante (Crystal Palace), Kaylem Harnett (Wexford FC), Cory O�Sullivan (Shamrock Rovers), Ade Solanke (Shamrock Rovers)

Midfielders: Romeo Akachukwu (Waterford), Rhys Bartley (St. Patrick�s Athletic), Luke Kehir (St. Patrick�s Athletic), Matthew Moore (Cork City), Danny McGrath (Bohemians), Taylor Mooney (Bohemians), Freddie Turley (Shamrock Rovers)

Forwards: Mason Melia (St. Patrick�s Athletic), Matthew Murray (Cork City), Ike Orazi (Shamrock Rovers), Nickson Oksoun (Bohemians), Naj Razi (Shamrock Rovers)

I see melia is on for pats first team tonight

**pineapple stu** · 12/05/2023, 9:41 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

I'm not sure who's being held back either, I'd rather see a lad staying in Ireland until 21 and making a good career for himself at League One level rather than being churned out by the English academy system and being lost to football altogether.

Yeah, I agree with this. When the guys get to 18 they should be breaking into the first teams. Babb I know has already made his UCD debut for example. At that stage you do have to ask if it's worth giving up a fight for a first team spot to drop into an English academy (cos they're not going to be starters in England by and large)

The LoI is one of the youngest leagues in Europe in terms of player age - that's a bad thing in many ways but it does mean there's huge opportunities for these guys in the coming seasons.

So I just can't get on board with the idea that leaving Ireland at the earliest possible opportunity is the only way. 21 is fine.

**Eirambler** · 13/05/2023, 8:39 AM

For the best talents, it's really not fine. Having the likes of Ferguson, Collins and Bazunu stay in Ireland until 21 would have been disastrous for their long term development. It's fine for the likes of a Dawson Devoy or a Darragh Burns whose ceiling is probably League 1 regardless. But for the better players, it's nowhere near the standard they need.

Anyway, luckily it's a largely irrelevant discussion as there is no prospect of the better players being held back beyond 18 while the facilities in Ireland remain of the standard they are currently. Better players, understandably, won't accept that and will leave as soon as they can for the sake of their careers. Obviously it won't work out for every player, that's just the nature of it, but it means the best ones will continue to have the best opportunity to fulfill their potential.

**pineapple stu** · 13/05/2023, 9:02 AM

For the absolute best players, sure.

But you were talking about the entire squad ("Great chance to put themselves in the shop window for a transfer to Europe or to Britain once they turn 18.") with no consideration of whether there was a Ferguson, Collins or Bazunu there.

There's plenty of players who've started in LoI and made an international career out of it. Admittedly the odds of doing so when you move across to a club lower than Championship level are very reduced, but with crowds (and, presumably, money and even profile) in the LoI on the increase, hopefully facilities will start to improve too, and we can really start putting this sort of backwards idea behind us.

**Eirambler** · 13/05/2023, 3:03 PM

It is a great chance for the entire squad though. Naturally, in any underage squad, you might get one or two who go on to great things, a few more who forge solid careers and plenty who end up in regular jobs by the time they're 23. But this is an opportunity for these lads to show why they could be the one of the ones who can make it at a high level, and who get a move to a big club to hopefully progress from there. For those that aren't good enough for that the League of Ireland will be fine.

I don't see any significant change coming in the next five years in terms of domestic facilities. Maybe 15 years, who knows, but things aren't changing to any significant extent in the short term.

**pineapple stu** · 13/05/2023, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

It is a great chance for the entire squad though. [...] But this is an opportunity for these lads to show why they could be the one of the ones who can make it at a high level, and who get a move to a big club to hopefully progress from there.

As may be, but that chance doesn't have to be the first flight out of the country to whatever academy comes knocking on their 18th birthday, as you suggest.

**ontheotherhand** · 13/05/2023, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by liamoo11

I think it depends how they are treated. Look at ferizaj at shamrock rovers this season has been a write off so far for him no sign rovers are prioritising his development , he would be better off in a top academy if that's going to continue

Not quite the case Liam. If he came back to an academy in England in the shape he came back to Rovers in he could already be on the scrap heap. He was back in first team action last night after a spell where he was told to knuckle down and get serious.

**tetsujin1979** · 14/05/2023, 11:27 AM

�We won�t be putting limits on them� � Colin O�Brien�s faith in Ireland U17s ahead of Euro finals and World Cup bid
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...448259994.html