Couldnt agree with you more Stu on the HE/Him email bull****, i make a practise of avoiding doing business with anyone that carries on with that BS.
The problem with these zealots is they wont admit they are wrong despite the evidence, most of them are left wing versions of Donald Trump , evidence that doesnt agree with them is "Fake news"
Shocking to read this. Shocking.
Calling me out on comments nearly 2 years ago and not tagging me and then saying I have "blood on my hands" all the while lamenting the toxicity of debate is a tad ironic no?
All on a thread called Roe v Wade - and yet I'm the toxic one.
This is unbelievably poor form.
Last edited by dahamsta; 24/04/2024 at 1:19 PM.
Really? That's what shocks you out of this? Really?
Not giving kids drugs linked to cancer and infertility? Not experimental surgery maiming them for life? Not pressure put on parents that their kids might commit suicide if they don't go for the surgery? Not the allegation WPATH is an ascientific body of activists which has abandoned the Hippocratic oath? Not the fact Hilary Cass has been advised not to take public transport because of hateful messages received? Not the fact that gender clinics actively worked against Cass during her report? Not the fact that no-one will talk to kids about detransitioning?
None of that shocks you?
There's a strong suggestion that many kids with autism or depression or even teenage angst look to this trans idea as a solution for all their problems - only to later find it's not a solution at all, and in the meantime some have done permanent harm to themselves.
Anything which blindly promotes inclusivity of this ideal can only be seen as problematic.
I will acknowledge the "blood on the hands" comment was maybe a bit excessive and borne out of anger and (a) this scandal and (b) the way the discussion is handled broadly. You can argue people didn't really know what was going on. Some may even have been advised by people they trust, such as doctors. But they know now.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 22/04/2024 at 8:26 AM.
I haven't had the chance to read any of the reports or digest it in full. I'm sure you are sincere in your anger and fair play to you for standing up for what you believe in but next time when dragging up posts from almost 2 years ago perhaps take a deep breath and leave off the personal attacks. Thanks.
I don't see what the issue with the thread being old is. It's a slow-moving forum and this is a huge development in what was being discussed
Similarly your complaints about the thread title and not tagging you are bizarre (you can't tag people here, and the thread naturally evolved away from the what is it originally was about, as can happen)
It does feel a bit like you don't want to engage in the topic given your previous reluctance to, but let's wait until your reply I guess. There seems no excuse for getting taken in by this stuff now.
There's a well-supported campaign now to get a full British government investigation into this, including how it got its teeth into schools to the extent it did.
You've already attacked me by calling my posts toxic and saying I've blood on my hands. Now you are making me out to be some sort of lunatic. I won't be replying to any of your specific posts so no need to wait. The thread may be slow moving but the topic isn't - I've had some revisions to my opinions in the meantime. And some stuff I'd still standby but won't be discussing it here at length. There are many many well supported campaigns to get the British government to investigate into a lot of things. Lets hope their investigation into this particular issue happens if there is wrongdoing - and it is through and comprehensive when found.
Last edited by Real ale Madrid; 22/04/2024 at 10:20 AM.
The Journal has some good articles on this. There's articles from both sides of the argument and a podcast (haven't listened yet).
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/tav...56143-Apr2024/
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/tav...56357-Apr2024/
https://www.thejournal.ie/cass-repor...59360-Apr2024/
I think what's clear is that there was a lot of rapid developments in trans care and activism and that the science has lagged behind in terms of some of the approaches that have become popular with many activists. I'd by hypocritical if I didn't think a science based approach is best, but that does have to be caveated with potential bias, that could be inherent based on where funding has come from, what sources have been used/excluded from the study etc.
What's certainly clear is that there's a need for wrap around supports, medical, psychological etc. There needs to be better collection of data and monitoring of results from different approaches. Work needs to be done to encourage broader participation in the studies, as it's evident that some chose not to participate in the Cass report that could have provided more insights. There's a good point made in the "against" article on the Journal about anti-trans weaponisation of the report, and potential backlash.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
Unfortunately this sort of stance is all-too-typical
I did call your posts toxic - you were warned in thread for example. You suggested my concerns as those of a "snowflake" in your opening post on the thread - I wonder will you now concede they're very valid indeed? My post 61 looks fairly prescient for example. This stuff hasn't just come to light now, despite your numerous protestations in the thread which haven't stood the test of time - saying there's zero hard evidence linking autism and gender dysphoria for example. You "could be convinced" that organisations should be allowed force people as their pronouns to their emails, but now there's growing evidence that people with autism, depression, or other unfortunate mental issues latch on to this as something great; the solution to all their worries. But it's not. It's making things worse for them by papering over real issues. And even pushing them towards the hands of loonie activists. (You mentioned D&I - another group that needs to take a long hard look at itself. Ironically I'm telling us all what to think, they've removed the possibility of other opinions - of diversity, as it were)
I've not called you some sort of lunatic - that's an absurd leap. Typical of the way this is discussed too often - throw some mud, run away, hope it sticks
Meanwhile, 16 senior psychologists - some of whom worked at GIDS - are the latest to add their voices to the call for an investigation into "the scandal unfolding at Gender Identity Development Service clinics"
(https://www.theguardian.com/theobser...server-letters)
Last edited by pineapple stu; 22/04/2024 at 6:40 PM.
Listen - there's a lot in that - and I will rebutt some of the items you've brought up in good time, maybe, if I ever get the chance to be as informed as I can. I haven't read the report or anything like in the level of detail you have. I don't like wading in on topics I'm not up to speed on - during Covid I got involved in some D&I initiatives in work and felt a little bit more informed at the time and I felt the initial criticism leveled at the pronouns discussion was unfair.
Few things -
Please do not drag me by my username into a long dormant thread to score some sort of point. If you want to mention general discourse then do it - there are plenty reference points online for you to link. Leave me out of it - or at least if you do, QUOTE ME - and quit it with the - "wasn't RAM awful that time when we discussed this in 2022 - isn't it typical".
Please do not call my posts toxic. I was not warned about my posts being toxic at the time - that is a lie. I regrettably used the word snowflake a few times and I apologized for that repeatedly. It was actually in reference to something Dahamsta said not you. That type of introspection is the opposite of toxic. You are ignoring this of course this to suit your narrative.
Saying people are "taken in" by "this stuff" - makes them out to be not of sound mind - as if they are incapable of making up their own minds. Please do not do that either. Its not a leap and its not throwing s1ht as you call it.
And lastly - in all my time posting on internet fora for the last 25 odd years I've never had to wake up and read anything like I did this morning when I logged on with a cuppa. You might want to tone things down a bit - not everyone is as vexed on such matters as you are. I'm really not sure why you are so belligerent on a football forum on Gender issues arising out of potential malpractice in the UK. Are there not loads of other places you could be discussing stuff like that, or are just trying to make a show of me? Like I said I've been posting on places like this for years - and guess what - I've been proved wrong more than I've been proved right. If I read up and discover you were spot on about everything I'll be sure and let you know. For now I'm off to wash the blood off my hands.
Last edited by Real ale Madrid; 22/04/2024 at 7:33 PM.
Fair points RAM - and again, I've clarified my initial comments which you seem to have originally accepted before rowing back a bit
I am not saying anyone is incapable of making their own minds up on anything - but there really is only one conclusion from this. Read through my post and the bits I reference and you'll likely, and independently, agree.
This is a Current Affairs forum and in fairness to the posters here (apart from the more Americanised ones - mark12345 for example) I've found the discussion - when it happens, which is too rare unfortunately - quite good. This is a big development on an existing topic; there's no reason not to re-open the discussion.
Latest development now is the Labour MP criticising the evidence in Parliament - 98% of trials ignored - but then issuing an apology a couple of days later. She'd been fed misinformation by Stonewall. One of the organisations called out for not cooperating with the report in the first place.
It looks like it'll take the Scottish parliament down too. The Scottish Greens - who seem to be just militant activists - are appalled at the idea puberty blockers are being discontinued. They repeat the lies about the weak evidence in Cass, and wonder what to tell people in treatment that it's being discontinued. (How about telling them the truth maybe?)
This stuff is horrific.
Folks, tone down the rhetoric please, remember the golden rule: attack the post, not the poster. If you can't, add the poster to your ignore list.
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