Kerry FC

[culloty82]

Anyone else feel that Kerry FC need an extra bit to their name like a "United" or "Celtic" or "Athletic"? Just to distinguish themselves from Kerry GAA in everyday conversations?

In Cork, "City" are the soccer team and "Cork" are the GAA team and in Sligo you have "Rovers" and in Longford you have "The Town" etc.

Imagine the conversation starting...
"good result for Kerry last night?"
"Which one?"
Etc

The alternative is that they beome to be referred to as "the soccer team" or just "FC". I think they'd be better off picking a name tbh.

Funnily enough, there already is a third-tier Welsh club called Kerry FC!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_F.C.

"County" would seem the logical suffix to pick if they had to, in keeping with the intended ethos and footballing tradition (Derby, Notts, Ross, Stockport, and Kildare previously of course).

As for "jumping the queue", as things stand, and as mentioned, they seem to be the only people in the queue, so the financial hurdle has generally proven the hardest for new applicants to overcome - would be interesting to see if they eventually consider a supporters trust model if they are accepted and medium to long-term stability has been secured.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

I agree 100%.
Kerry Rovers (just to annoy the Sligo fans)

Kerrs

[EatYerGreens]

I'd vote for the Kerry Healy-Raes FC.

Branded flat caps available from the club shop. Post-match interviews with subtitles.

[Nesta99]

Joking aside, they will inevitably manage to weasel their way in to being involved somehow.

[Philosophizer]

The alternative is that they beome to be referred to as "the soccer team" or just "FC".

Why not go the other way and just abbreviate the whole thing to KFC?? 😁

[EatYerGreens]

Joking aside, they will inevitably manage to weasel their way in to being involved somehow.

'Soccer' is too urbane for the Healy-Raes though. Those fellas still stay indoors on a full moon, eat with their bare hands, and fornicate with their socks on.

[joey B]

Kerry Kings,catchy,unique and plays into the nickname of the county…

[EalingGreen]

There is a vacant spot in the First Division. Kerry are the only non league club at U19 level. If new clubs are to be encouraged to join the youth leagues, Kerry are first in line to set the example of a pathway to the LoI.

And finally somebody hits the nail on the head.

Aye, but isn't it the wrong nail?

That is, the admission of another club to the FD should be designed to strnegthen the Senior set-up, not the Youth set-up elsewhere (welcome though the latter side-effect may be)?

And going beyond that, there is something I really don't get about Kerry FC, though I'm very happy to be corrected.

I assume the team will be made up of late teenaged/early 20's players who have outgrown the U-19's category, plus maybe a few older Kerry players playing for other sides who might be persuaded to come back to the County. And for the beginning, at least, these will be amateurs.

In the end, such a team will either be up to standard, playing-wise, or they won't. If it's the latter, then the experiment will fail, which in itself will do nothing for your "nail" (recruitment to other youth leagues).

But even assuming it's the former, then how long before the other pro and semi-pro clubs come sniffing around, to lure away the best players/managers/coaches with the offer of a paying contract?

The rationale for the team is that it offers a "pathway" to players once they've outgrown the Youth league. But such players must by definition be ambitious to make the best of themselves, meaning that some at least will be open to playing at a higher standard for a bigger club, with the chance of a few Euro an added bonus.

While the bigger clubs would know that as amateurs, these players couldn't command a transfer fee, and (presumably) wouldn't be hard to pay, thereby making them very attractive as a cheap punt.

Which in turn would put pressure on Kerry FC to start paying their players, if only on a "generous expenses" basis. In which case, could the money be found before the club has become properly established (crowds, sponsors, advertisiers etc) to sustain that? Or are there wealthy benefactors in the background?

I may be way off beam here, but it seems to me that with previous failures in both introdiucing entirely new professional clubs to Senior football, or elevating (essentially) Intermediate clubs, the FAI is scratching around for a new way to solve an immediate problem (i.e. need for a 10th FD team), in the guise of addressing another problem (i.e. constructing a pyramid).

[nigel-harps1954]

Kerrs

Only if they have a pink jersey.

[legendz]

Aye, but isn't it the wrong nail?

That is, the admission of another club to the FD should be designed to strnegthen the Senior set-up, not the Youth set-up elsewhere (welcome though the latter side-effect may be)?...

There is a vacant spot. Currently there isn't a third tier. Kerry are next in line. It's just the way it is.
If there's a third tier in a few years time for the likes of Kildare, Mayo, Carlow Kilkenny and Cavan Monaghan, a club might be in possession of a First Division licence and more prepared for the step up.
If a club progresses from youth football to League of Ireland, it is an encouragement for others like Meath to give it consideration.
Kerry FC will be amateur. That's the reality of it. Going from the lowest youth league group all the way up to senior has taken a few years. Progressing from amateur to any direction towards professionalism will also take many years, if possible.

[culloty82]

Aye, but isn't it the wrong nail?

That is, the admission of another club to the FD should be designed to strnegthen the Senior set-up, not the Youth set-up elsewhere (welcome though the latter side-effect may be)?

And going beyond that, there is something I really don't get about Kerry FC, though I'm very happy to be corrected.

I assume the team will be made up of late teenaged/early 20's players who have outgrown the U-19's category, plus maybe a few older Kerry players playing for other sides who might be persuaded to come back to the County. And for the beginning, at least, these will be amateurs.

In the end, such a team will either be up to standard, playing-wise, or they won't. If it's the latter, then the experiment will fail, which in itself will do nothing for your "nail" (recruitment to other youth leagues).

But even assuming it's the former, then how long before the other pro and semi-pro clubs come sniffing around, to lure away the best players/managers/coaches with the offer of a paying contract?

The rationale for the team is that it offers a "pathway" to players once they've outgrown the Youth league. But such players must by definition be ambitious to make the best of themselves, meaning that some at least will be open to playing at a higher standard for a bigger club, with the chance of a few Euro an added bonus.

While the bigger clubs would know that as amateurs, these players couldn't command a transfer fee, and (presumably) wouldn't be hard to pay, thereby making them very attractive as a cheap punt.

Which in turn would put pressure on Kerry FC to start paying their players, if only on a "generous expenses" basis. In which case, could the money be found before the club has become properly established (crowds, sponsors, advertisiers etc) to sustain that? Or are there wealthy benefactors in the background?

I may be way off beam here, but it seems to me that with previous failures in both introdiucing entirely new professional clubs to Senior football, or elevating (essentially) Intermediate clubs, the FAI is scratching around for a new way to solve an immediate problem (i.e. need for a 10th FD team), in the guise of addressing another problem (i.e. constructing a pyramid).

The model is intended to operate on the same lines as Wexford - yes, Dennehy would be delighted if players stayed with Kerry for the majority of their senior careers, but if a number clearly have the capability to excel in the Premier Division, and the leading clubs express an interest, than he wouldn't refuse them the chance to pursue such an opportunity. As for the question of amateur v semi-pro status, the former is just an initial position in order to avoid making the same financial mistakes that new clubs made in the past, and as you suggest, if/when the first season proves the sustainability of the project, they could scale ambitions up accordingly the following season.

[EalingGreen]

There is a vacant spot. Currently there isn't a third tier. Kerry are next in line. It's just the way it is..

Kerry FC are "next in line" solely because the FAI has said they are. But not only is there no Kerry FC yet, there's not a "line" either.

In other words, Kerry FC are a "sticking plaster".

If there's a third tier in a few years time for the likes of Kildare, Mayo, Carlow Kilkenny and Cavan Monaghan, a club might be in possession of a First Division licence and more prepared for the step up.

"A few years"?

Doesn't sound as if the FAI plans to wait that long:
"Commence consultation on the formation of an Irish football pyramid by Q4, 2022 with an agreed and transformed football pyramid structure in place by 2025"
https://www.fai.ie/domestic/news/fai...-2025-launched

While you've cited four possible entrants who, even if all are willing and successful, would still be somewhat short of a viable third tier of 8 clubs (minimum)

If a club progresses from youth football to League of Ireland, it is an encouragement for others like Meath to give it consideration.

Correction: "If a club progresses successfully from youth football to LOI etc". That is, if Kerry fails, that puts an end to that experiment.

And besides, apart from Meath, who else have you in mind? Remember, not every new entrant in a 3rd tier is sure to manage, even at that level, never mind progress to the next one. Meaning that the pyramid shouldn't just end at the 3rd tier, as though it was somehow hanging in the air, you need Promotion & Relegation in both directions for it to work.

Kerry FC will be amateur. That's the reality of it. Going from the lowest youth league group all the way up to senior has taken a few years. Progressing from amateur to any direction towards professionalism will also take many years, if possible.

Except that they haven't gone "from the lowest youth league group all the way up to senior [over] a few years", the club is effectively an entirely new creation, irrespective of where it hopes to draw its players and supporters from.

Anyhow, though I've only been to Kerry a couple of times, it seems a nice place with nice people, so good luck to them.

[culloty82]

As of now, it would seem that the third tier of a pyramid would be akin to the old A Championship, largely fleshed out with reserve teams, and unless there is any news about new clubs expressing interest in the coming months, it's unlikely to begin until 2024 at the earliest, which is why Kerry ultimately have applied for the First Division. When it does get underway, promotion or relegation would probably operate in the same fashion as before, with the best non-reserve third-tier club playing off against the bottom FD team. Further layers would take more time to organise, given the summer vs winter calendar clashes.

[EalingGreen]

As of now, it would seem that the third tier of a pyramid would be akin to the old A Championship, largely fleshed out with reserve teams, and unless there is any news about new clubs expressing interest in the coming months, it's unlikely to begin until 2024 at the earliest, which is why Kerry ultimately have applied for the First Division. When it does get underway, promotion or relegation would probably operate in the same fashion as before, with the best non-reserve third-tier club playing off against the bottom FD team. Further layers would take more time to organise, given the summer vs winter calendar clashes.

Seems like a "fudge" to me i.e. not a "proper" third tier.

The IL has three senior divisions of 12 teams each. Now granted, some of the newer/lower ones in the Premier Intermediate (3rd tier) are decidedly small-time, low standard etc. Nonetheless they are all independent stand-alone clubs.

While the top two Senior divisions have their own entirely separate Reserve Leagues of 12 teams each:
https://www.nifootballleague.com/pre...022/standings/
https://www.nifootballleague.com/cha...022/standings/

Also under-age leagues.

[legendz]

EalingGreen, you are like a man possessed!
There is a vacant spot in the First Division. Kerry are the only non league entity at U19 level. The application to join the First Division is in some ways a reflection of the hard work put into date.
A third tier type A Championship might sound fudgy but it is an Irish solution to an Irish problem! It's just the way it is! Roll with it or drive yourself bananas!
Ideally the third tier will have at least 16 teams split north and south. I think it is realistically 3 to 5 years away. If third level institutions come on board, a possible breakdown could be 8 to 10 LoI reserve teams, 2 to 4 or 6 third level institutions and 2 to 4 non league entities.
Non league entities should only be able to join if they are integrated into the youth leagues as well. LoI reserve teams should have a stipulation that at least 5 outfield players are U23. Third level institutions should be granted an exemption from the youth leagues but with a stipulation that there full squad is U23.

[EalingGreen]

EalingGreen, you are like a man possessed!

Er, ok...

[Buller]

Correction: "If a club progresses successfully from youth football to LOI etc". That is, if Kerry fails, that puts an end to that experiment.

There's clear LOI examples on both sides of the coin to be fair and its unfair to completely base the entire argument on them. I don't think its black and white. Some controls and some free market would be ideal.

Wexford FC are a example of a club appearing in an area where it was badly required and thriving - a successful experiment.

Mervue and Salthill progressing up and dividing an already small town is a major downside to full pyramid as suggested. They both have excellent facilities and couldn't have been better prepared for the step up to First Division national - esp with Galway Utd out of the picture at that time, it was best case scenario stuff. Happening naturally wouldn't have helped in any way IMO. And this would 100% happen in Galway in any pyramid system, diluting the already limited supporter base. It would not help football in Galway.
But this is just one example, a full pyramid could help football in Dublin. Who knows!

The system we're building out slowly from top down is the best way forward in my opinion. Im not sure directly copying NI's complete football pyramid would work in a country of this size. Could end up weakening Junior clubs like Salthill and Mervue as did last time - unless they refuse promotion to national level league.

[nigel-harps1954]

To be fair, I don't think either Mervue or Salthill had adequate facilities for League of Ireland football.

[culloty82]

It would be preferable, of course, if any pyramid were delivered from the bottom up, but I think clubs still remember Castlebar, Tullamore and Carlow being effectively stranded after the last experiment, so are reluctant to commit themselves to any new project. The local relationship between soccer and the GAA will be intriguing in the coming years - at present, the new communities in the county seem to be overwhelmingly opting for the former, rather than the latter, with Stefan Okunbor very much the exception to the rule. Also, since the minor grade in football was moved back to under-17, it means players have to decide at an increasingly early age about which sport they wish to focus on, well before they would be ready for the League of Ireland.

[legendz]

Yeah. Castlebar, Carlow, Tralee and Tullamore were left stranded when the rug was pulled out from the old A Championship. Once bitten, twice shy!
The youth leagues have become a continuation of representative football from the Kennedy Cup. The Oscar Traynor Cup was a good competition once upon a time.
Bringing this representation football into the youth leagues and potentially a third tier in years to come isn't an alien concept.