Saipan - 20 Years On

**seanfhear** · 01/08/2024, 8:24 AM

What happens in Saipan should stay in Saipan !

**Razors left peg** · 01/08/2024, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They couldn't though. They couldn't have gone to a large city or somewhere at serious altitude or one of the more repressive regimes or somewhere significantly west of Japan (because of the risk of jetlag flying on)

As Stu says, it wasn't a layover; it was somewhere to get away from the media of the Premier League and the World Cup, to bind as a group before heading on to their base in Japan, which was excellent.

It's a weird choice for sure. But I'm not seeing what the issue is

Open a map, look at where Saipan is. If you still don't see the issue I have no further argument.

**seanfhear** · 01/08/2024, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Open a map, look at where Saipan is. If you still don't see the issue I have no further argument.

Did they have airplanes ? !

**Razors left peg** · 01/08/2024, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by seanfhear

Did they have airplanes ? !

Funnily enough they did... but no footballs

**seanfhear** · 01/08/2024, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Funnily enough they did... but no footballs

Fly me to the moon !

**pineapple stu** · 01/08/2024, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Open a map, look at where Saipan is. If you still don't see the issue I have no further argument.

I know where Saipan is. It's about a three-hour flight from Japan. You say they could have gone anywhere in Asia - but most of Asia is more than a three-hour flight from Japan.

That seems your only objection - but I don't understand why it's an issue. Somewhere out of the way is, by its very nature, going to be a bit out of the way. But three and a bit hours is hardly excessive.

**seanfhear** · 01/08/2024, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I know where Saipan is. It's about a three-hour flight from Japan. You say they could have gone anywhere in Asia - but most of Asia is more than a three-hour flight from Japan.

That seems your only objection - but I don't understand why it's an issue. Somewhere out of the way is, by its very nature, going to be a bit out of the way. But three and a bit hours is hardly excessive.

Sure they could have gone to Belmullet if they really wanted to be isolated !

**Razors left peg** · 01/08/2024, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I know where Saipan is. It's about a three-hour flight from Japan. You say they could have gone anywhere in Asia - but most of Asia is more than a three-hour flight from Japan.

That seems your only objection - but I don't understand why it's an issue. Somewhere out of the way is, by its very nature, going to be a bit out of the way. But three and a bit hours is hardly excessive.

The next world cup is in the US, let's see if any of the European teams playing in LA will have a build up camp in Hawaii

**SkStu** · 01/08/2024, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

They could have gone anywhere in Asia if they wanted to acclimatize, going off into the middle of the Pacific made no sense

If not Saipan, then where was the obviously better choice? Japan and South Korea are fairly disconnected.

**Razors left peg** · 01/08/2024, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

If not Saipan, then where was the obviously better choice? Japan and South Korea are fairly disconnected.

How about any place that any other team prepping for that World Cup based themselves before the tournament. Somewhere that wasn't hours out of the way in the middle of the Pacific. If it didn't matter cos it was only a flight away, why not go to Australia? South Africa maybe, how about the Aran Islands... it was nonsense and we only ended up there because Ray Tracey got his pockets filled

**pineapple stu** · 01/08/2024, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

The next world cup is in the US, let's see if any of the European teams playing in LA will have a build up camp in Hawaii

It wasn't a build-up camp though. It was a break from the hectic Premier League season, and a chance to recharge ahead of a hectic World Cup campaign. The opposite of a build-up camp in a way.

Was it really necessary? Maybe not. But if it was decided that sort of break would be good, then I'm still not seeing any real issues with Saipan as a venue. It was only a short flight away, so your Australia/South Africa comparisons aren't valid (and South Africa to Tokyo would bring in jetlag too).

**Razors left peg** · 01/08/2024, 3:29 PM

20 years hasnt changed anyones opinions on this so Im not going to keep going over and back trying to persuade anyone why Saipan was ridiculous. I am genuinely surprised though, I thought it had been well established by now that it was a disaster to go there and that everyone pretty much agreed on that. I was obviously wrong.

**SkStu** · 01/08/2024, 3:42 PM

Saipan was a disaster but not for the reasons you are putting out there. It was a disaster because our Captain and Manager had a massive falling out based on relationship issues that went back to 1994 that Keane just couldn't let go of. It wasn't a disaster because of poor pitches (it wasn't a training camp). It wasn't a disaster because it was far from Japan/SK (any other alternative would be). It wasn't a disaster because someone got their pockets lined (that came out later). If Keane and McCarthy not had a bust up, we'd never have even heard of the place.

**seanfhear** · 01/08/2024, 3:48 PM

Somebody should have brought some joints for Roy Keane !

**Razors left peg** · 01/08/2024, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

Saipan was a disaster but not for the reasons you are putting out there. It was a disaster because our Captain and Manager had a massive falling out based on relationship issues that went back to 1994 that Keane just couldn't let go of. It wasn't a disaster because of poor pitches (it wasn't a training camp). It wasn't a disaster because it was far from Japan/SK (any other alternative would be). It wasn't a disaster because someone got their pockets lined (that came out later). If Keane and McCarthy not had a bust up, we'd never have even heard of the place.

Not a training camp but they were training there and the lack of footballs and bad pitches were a big issue.... but ok!

**SkStu** · 01/08/2024, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Not a training camp but they were training there and the lack of footballs and bad pitches were a big issue.... but ok!

Look, if I have to spell out everything to the minute detail in terms of what some of the shorthand (like training camp) means, we'll be here all day. You know what I mean. There were no drills, no cardio stuff, etc - none of the stuff you would see when they actually got to the camp. It was about team bonding, morale, relaxation and recuperation primarily and significantly. If you want to dispute that then say so directly.

A big issue... for Keane. Pretty much everyone else more or less - even if it wasn't perfect - understood what they were there for and got on with things as best they could.

**Razors left peg** · 01/08/2024, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

Look, if I have to spell out everything to the minute detail in terms of what some of the shorthand (like training camp) means, we'll be here all day. You know what I mean. There were no drills, no cardio stuff, etc - none of the stuff you would see when they actually got to the camp. It was about team bonding, morale, relaxation and recuperation primarily and significantly. If you want to dispute that then say so directly.

A big issue... for Keane. Pretty much everyone else more or less - even if it wasn't perfect - understood what they were there for and got on with things as best they could.

Put back on your knickers there Stuey before they get too twisted like a good lad. I fully understand what a training camp is, this was a training camp albeit a light one. Saying they were just there to relax and nothing else is plain nonsense. There was training involved, hence it was a training camp.

If they just wanted to relax they could have all spent the week in Bangkok getting "massaged". This was a professional football team preparing for a World Cup and yet you still all these years later think it was acceptable to bring them off to a place that was so logistically difficult to get to the footballs couldnt even find their way there.

**texidub** · 01/08/2024, 4:46 PM

We played pretty well at that WC without Keane so staying in Saipan didn't do that much harm to the rest of the squad, in fairness - even if the lack of facilities there sounds crazy unprofessional.

**SkStu** · 01/08/2024, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Put back on your knickers there Stuey before they get too twisted like a good lad. I fully understand what a training camp is, this was a training camp albeit a light one. Saying they were just there to relax and nothing else is plain nonsense. There was training involved, hence it was a training camp.

If they just wanted to relax they could have all spent the week in Bangkok getting "massaged". This was a professional football team preparing for a World Cup and yet you still all these years later think it was acceptable to bring them off to a place that was so logistically difficult to get to the footballs couldnt even find their way there.

I'm doing grand, thanks. I'm just not sure what your argument is and i have tried to refute them all as i see them in #273 but you keep moving the goalposts. They could have gone to Bangkok instead is your latest position. OK - they could have. They'd still have another flight and jetlag to deal with which was your opening gambit (complete nonsense by the way)... but Roy and Mick would never have fallen out there, I suppose...

**OwlsFan** · 01/08/2024, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

If Keane and McCarthy not had a bust up, we'd never have even heard of the place.

You obviously don't know your WW2 ! I had heard of Saipan well before that. Site of one the biggest battles in the Pacific war with I think about 50K dead and about 100k wounded. Puts the McCarthy/Keane thing in the halfpenny place.