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Thread: Saipan - 20 Years On

  1. #201
    Seasoned Pro Fixer82's Avatar
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    And Genesis report was supposed to make sure everything ran professionally after Saipan too.
    Folding my way into the big money!!!

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    Coach John83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer82 View Post
    And Genesis report was supposed to make sure everything ran professionally after Saipan too.
    It recommended an external CEO be appointed. Instead, Delaney was appointed by a panel that included himself. I didn't think much of the Genesis report when a group of us finally got our hands on it, but the FAI just hid behind it while ignoring it wholesale.
    Just accept it: 2022 is going to suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    It recommended an external CEO be appointed. Instead, Delaney was appointed by a panel that included himself. I didn't think much of the Genesis report when a group of us finally got our hands on it, but the FAI just hid behind it while ignoring it wholesale.
    Sounds just like how, Irish Politicians behave.

  4. #204
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    Keane mentioned in the book that McCarthy met him before the start of the 2002 qualifiers to discuss aspects of the preparation like this, but before the first qualifier away to the Netherlands, there was no pasta available for the team in the hotel, and he let the manager know exactly what he thought about this. Keane went back to his room and ordered a pizza IIRC.
    i think this was later denied by Ray Treacy who organised the trip on behalf of the FAI. his side of the story was that the sandwiches were only a pre training snack and that a full dinner including pasta was available after the session.

    possibly the best away performance that I can remember on the back of it all though!

  5. #205
    Seasoned Pro Fixer82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    i think this was later denied by Ray Treacy who organised the trip on behalf of the FAI. his side of the story was that the sandwiches were only a pre training snack and that a full dinner including pasta was available after the session.

    possibly the best away performance that I can remember on the back of it all though!
    Treacy (God rest him) was the man who organised Saipan.
    Saipan was only to acclimatise and ‘have a few beers/blowout’ according to McCarthy; before the real work began.

    They misjudged the whole thing.

    It was a disaster of a destination.

    Also there’s this story which may be a bigger part of the story than we think:

    https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/footbal...k-clegg-253830

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  7. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by third policeman View Post
    I think the reference to “foreign guys” is probably not the best way of putting as they are all Irish. They are all from immigrant families snd it’s a fair point that their parents may be less aware / engaged in Irish football history. But in the context of this issue and the insinuations about genuine Irishness in Keane’s alleged comments, it’s a wee bit on the inappropriate/ clumsy side to describe any Irish footballers as being “foreign”
    Well done on your restraint. They're not foreign at all. Wholly inappropriate, not just a "wee" bit.

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  9. #207
    Seasoned Pro Fixer82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Well done on your restraint. They're not foreign at all. Wholly inappropriate, not just a "wee" bit.

    It’s not wholly inappropriate. There’s a valid point there that could’ve been made more eloquently.
    Someone from Nigeria who possibly didn’t live here at the time isn’t going to have as vivid a memory of the incident as someone Irish living here who was fully invested in that team and remembers that debacle well.
    Hence, the aforementioned won’t pass the story on to their kids the way the latter might.
    Folding my way into the big money!!!

  10. #208
    Seasoned Pro Razors left peg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer82 View Post
    It’s not wholly inappropriate. There’s a valid point there that could’ve been made more eloquently.
    Someone from Nigeria who possibly didn’t live here at the time isn’t going to have as vivid a memory of the incident as someone Irish living here who was fully invested in that team and remembers that debacle well.
    Hence, the aforementioned won’t pass the story on to their kids the way the latter might.
    A lad who is born and raised in Ireland to immigrant parents is not a foreigner. We all understand the point that was being made, but the words used are simply wrong and are completely inappropriate. Its that kind of BS nonsense that a lot of these lads grow up having to listen to.

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    Kind of depressing that people are still going on about this all this time on. I suppose it brings into sharp relief our lack of on-field achievements in this time. I went on the Indo's site early on and almost their entire sports section is dominated by this, with multiple articles from the time being republished.

    I was, of course, extremely disappointed at the time because it was our first tournament appearance in eight years - which seemed aeons to me at that age - and Keane was our captain and indisputably our best and most important player. But I understood that he was never all that committed when it came to playing for Ireland, seemingly considering us beneath him, or at least of a far lesser priority, with his main focus always being United, and I always suspected he would retire from the international scene long before he ended his club career. Keane just didn't want to be there, his heart wasn't in it and he eventually got his way. So, I simply supported the players who did want to be there and we acquitted ourselves very well.

    The state of football in this country, the fact that we haven't qualified for a World Cup in what will be at least 24 years, and what we might do to remedy this, is probably what we should really be talking about.
    Last edited by Trequartista20; 25/05/2022 at 4:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razors left peg View Post
    A lad who is born and raised in Ireland to immigrant parents is not a foreigner. We all understand the point that was being made, but the words used are simply wrong and are completely inappropriate. Its that kind of BS nonsense that a lot of these lads grow up having to listen to.
    At no point did I say that a lad born and raised in Ireland was a foreigner.
    I also said the point could’ve been made better.
    Calling them ‘foreign guys’ is clumsy.
    I think we’re in agreement there.
    But I don’t think the original poster’s intent was to be nasty.
    So I didn’t take it that way.

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    Seasoned Pro Razors left peg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer82 View Post
    At no point did I say that a lad born and raised in Ireland was a foreigner.
    I also said the point could’ve been made better.
    Calling them ‘foreign guys’ is clumsy.
    I think we’re in agreement there.
    But I don’t think the original poster’s intent was to be nasty.
    So I didn’t take it that way.
    No you didnt, the original post called them foreign guys

  14. #212
    Seasoned Pro Fixer82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razors left peg View Post
    No you didnt, the original post called them foreign guys
    Yes. Hence my ‘clumsy’ comment

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    Seasoned Pro Razors left peg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer82 View Post
    Yes. Hence my ‘clumsy’ comment
    My point is that its more than just Clumsy and a lad shouldnt have to deal with comments like that because hes black

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razors left peg View Post
    My point is that its more than just Clumsy and a lad shouldnt have to deal with comments like that because hes black
    I agree that a lad shouldn’t. But I don’t think there was ill intent in the comment.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razors left peg View Post
    My point is that its more than just Clumsy and a lad shouldnt have to deal with comments like that because hes black
    Why are you bringing skin colour into things? That's got nothing to do with anything.

    If you want to say it may have been made more eloquently, then fine, but ultimately at the core was the distinction between what - Irish and foreign background? Culture? Is that terminology really so much different? You have to differentiate them somehow in this context when it's core to the point that's being made. Which wasn't judgemental or discriminatory - just a matter-of-fact observation.

    Talk about inappropriateness is just getting offended for the sake of it to be honest.

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  19. #216
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    A player born in Ireland is Irish, not foreign.
    The poster misspoke, and has admitted his mistake.
    Let's move on

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  21. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Talk about inappropriateness is just getting offended for the sake of it to be honest.
    This offends me.
    Stephen Kenny Saviour, Leader, Winner, An Autobiography - In All Good Bookstores Now

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    As someone who didn't live here back then, I had never heard of Saipan before I moved here and developed an interest in Irish football. I think I'll never fully grasp how big a thing it was back then (and apparently still is now). I can completely relate to an immigrant family who might just have come here a few years before if the incident doesn't mean as much to them as it does for the average Irish supporter. And if it doesn't mean much to them, there is no point passing it on to the next generation.

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  25. #219
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer82 View Post
    Also there’s this story which may be a bigger part of the story than we think:

    https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/footbal...k-clegg-253830
    I think i might have heard or read something about this way back but it long since left the memory bank. Really interesting angle to it alright and id say it definitely would have played a big part in Roy's mood and perspective. On the face of it, would seem like a good idea and a trick missed by Mick McCarthy to pull together some quality backroom supports but would this guy have really been able to do much to impact the squad in the couple of weeks prior to the tournament?

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  27. #220
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    I missed that completely. I was sure I'd poured over every article and interview at the time and don't think I ever saw mention of Clegg.

    I'm not sure who I agree with for that specific incident. McCarthy had a team and probably didn't want to offend anyone or work with someone he didn't know. That seems fair. That said, if we snubbed the chance to bring in someone with that kind of pedigree and our captain was asking for it then it seems like a poor move by Mick. At worst he could have allowed Clegg to join Roy alone. We had time to train and we wasted some of it in Saipan so I'm sure he could have made some sort of impact.

    Thanks for sharing Fixer.
    Just arguing with strangers about strangers.

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