QuoteMy father in law in Portugal loved Babb. The whole family are big Sporting Lisbon fans and Babb was on the last league winning team before they won 2 seasons ago.
I liked Babb. I used to think Bjorneby left him more exposed on the left than scales was on the right side of the 3 CBs. But I also get the sense there was a touch of the spice boy lifestyle about him too. Great USA 94 though.
My father in law in Portugal loved Babb. The whole family are big Sporting Lisbon fans and Babb was on the last league winning team before they won 2 seasons ago.
I was thinking after seeing this and a couple of other posts whether we should re-name this thread and the two similar ones that deal with goalkeepers and forwards from "Embarrassment of riches" to "New Golden Generation?"Originally Posted by Eirambler
NO ~ ~ Heard more than enough of that about the English Golden Generation and how that turned Out ! !
Maybe "slightly less **** than the last generation" or something like that...
Wow, that's some serious cynicism, which surely is no longer justified by reality. First, though, the "awful" last generation did get us to the last 16 of the European Championships and a World Cup Playoff. But even given that, there really is cause for optimism, grounded in reality, that the group of players coming through will be significantly better. And we can assess the situation from a number of perspectives.
- Looking at recent goals, Parrott's winner against Lithuania and Obafemi's worldie were statement goals comparable to Robbie Keane's second against Malta in '98.
- Looking at personnel, we have three high quality goalkeepers in their early 20s, two of whom will quite possibly play more PL games this season alone than Darren Randolph did in his entire career; in defence, Nathan Collins looks like he could challenge Paul McGrath to be our best centre-half ever, with Omobamidele and O'Shea also likely to be better than Duffy and Egan; up front it is looking more and more likely that at least three of the quartet of Parrott, Obafemi, Idah and Connolly will deliver on their early promise, with a number of other breakthroughs possible over the next season; Our midfield is a little thinner currently but if even a couple from Smallbone/Coventry/Moran/Kilkenny/Hodge/Noss/Finn break through next season then it will start to look really decent
- And in terms of youth coming through, our U21s have just reach a qualifying playoff for the first time ever, in spite of nine players being moved up to the senior squad. Pre-pandemic our U17s appeared in three Finals tournaments in a row (one as hosts) and were on target to make it four when COVID hit.
What's a "statement goal"?
Were David Kelly's goals v Israel in 1987 "statement goals"?
Or Keith O'Neill's goal v Bolivia in 96?
So good they had to make a statement to the Guards after the match ! !
It was pretty clear to me what he meant.
Ok - but was it not pretty clear what I meant in reply too?
A statement goal doesn't have to predict a golden generation or a great international career.
Or if that is the view being taken, I think it's got more than a tinge of Sam's usual slightly excessive optimism.
Eirambler's post is much more reasoned I think
On Saturday, 28th September, there was
John O'Shea(Charlton V Man Utd)
Gary Breen(Chelsea V West Ham)
Gary Doherty(Spurs V Middlesbough)
Phil Babb and Steve Staunton(Sunderland V Aston Villa)
Kenny Cunningham, Jeff Kenna, and Andy O'Brien(Birmingham V Newcastle)
All except Doherty started, he came on for Ziege. Not sure if Kenna was centre half or not.
Do we overproduce centre-backs (and underproduced forwards) compared to other countries or does it just feel that way?
I quite like Sam's optimism and at this point in time I think it's a bit churlish to reply with examples of Kelly & O'Neill. David Kelly made a fine contribution to the national team in my opinion anyway and was never heralded as a next big thing.
I'm not sure if we necessarily under-produce forwards in relative terms. I think producing goalscorers is an issue for a lot of small countries in recent years.
I think we have underproduced good midfielders in the last 20 years compared to other countries though. We haven't had a really good box to box centre mid since Keane, Holland and Kinsella all finished up around the same time. Most other countries seem to have loads of decent midfielders whereas we struggle a bit there.
We definitely over-produce centre backs though. I'm not sure why, we're not a country of overly tall people, we're fairly average sized. Is it because we seem to have favoured a less technical style of football down the years? Or maybe a GAA/rugby related thing where our players also play these sports at a young age and become more physical, less technical players? Maybe, but then many of the Irish centre backs coming through now are technically proficient footballers.
Incidentally, we seem to be at odds with most of Europe in terms of the players we produce, going by this piece from Miguel Delaney. He suggests that most players coming through now at academies are midfielders and full backs, whereas we seem to be producing keepers, centre backs and even a few strikers.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...-41762789.html
Maybe this will help us to be successful in the next 10 to 15 years, we will be stronger in areas of the field where other similar sized nations are weak?
Last edited by Eirambler; 28/06/2022 at 10:53 AM.
I think the GAA and rugby suggested influence could have some bearing. In both games, well positioned and disciplined defence would feel like having a greater bearing than in football. Not that it isn't important in football but if you're touch tight on a man in gaelic and don't let him by you or get space then you're doing your job. Football is the type of game where you can do your job but get mugged by a moment of ingenuity. It might have something to do with the ball being at the feet, in comparison to it being at the hand in football and rugby.
I think a statement goal is one that's a bit special, one that announces a young striker arrival as a particular talent. I can't remember any of Kelly's hat-trick being particularly outstanding and I just had a look at O'Neill's brace and, while they were decent (high-leaping header from a corner and beating the defence to a through ball before finishing tidily), they were still pretty conventional. Likewise with Robbie Keane's first goal against Malta, which was just a poacher's finish from a corner. But his second... that was something I had never seen from an Irish forward before - winning possession from one defender, nutmegging another and curling a finish into the far corner, all in one move. When I saw that live, I understood what the hype was about. When I saw Obafemi line up his strike, I felt something special was about to happen and when it flew into the net I got the same feeling as I did all those years ago with Robbie. I didn't get to see the Parrott strike against Lithuania live but it looked terrific also - controlling a bouncing ball, running across the edge of the box before unleashing a low-flying bullet to the corner.
OK, I think we are closer in our analysis than we initially thought and, yes, there is a concern about the lack of top players in their mid-to-late 20s in the squad to support... essentially we're going to have a complete squad overhaul over the next 1-2 cycles but I think we are well on track for that to happen - we have three active goalkeepers who we can now be confident will be international class (four if you add Max O'Leary); we have three centre-halves who we can be similarly confident about, with another half-dozen already playing at Championship/League One level; up front, as I've said, Idah, Parrott and Obafemi all look ready and if Connolly can get his act together, he could also be added to the list, with a number of others who have a good chance of breaking through next season.
And possibly the most important indicator that we may be looking at a new G.G. is that around ten players in our recent senior squads still qualify for the U21s and, even without them, the U21s have had their best qualifying campaign ever.
Last edited by samhaydenjr; 28/06/2022 at 6:12 PM.
i've always thought that the standard of pitches at schoolboy level has hindered the technical development, that you would more associate with midfield / strikers, of our players.
to the credit of many clubs the standard of pitches is getting much better but on some of the pitches i played on growing up it was very difficult to play any sort of decent football given the poor surface.
reminds me of Mark Kelly... who was heralded as the next big thing. Had me awful giddy as a 10-11 year old.
I dont really disagree but Croatia and Uruguay are the two countries similar to us that immediately come to mind where they seem to have goal-scoring excellence as part of their genetic make up!
ah Jaysis, I've now had to agree with PineappleStu! Adding Max O'Leary to the "confident will be international class" would be highly optimistic
(Actually I know nothing about him really)
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