WUFC to fold

[pineapple stu]

It cost 9k to run the Club every week which again is pretty low. We didnt start waving silly money. We have a First Division budget which is why we signed First Division players.

Silly money isn't necessarily E2k a week. Silly money is more than what you can afford. If you can't afford anywhere near E9k a week but are paying it out, then that's silly money.

If you budgeted for 3000 a week, then (a) that's stupid and (b) that'd easily cover the E9k costs (3000 @ E10 average = E30,000 every other week). Why budget for the second highest crowd in the league and the second lowest costs? Doesn't make sense.

Even getting 1800 people would cover the E9k. And that's not considering the £100k profit you made on Daryl Murphy which wouldn't have been in the budget. That would cover a E3k deficit - one third of your costs, in other words - over the entire season. You're now talking about surviving on gates of 1200 - which is what the gates seem to be - not selling the entire squad.

Finally I do believe as many in Waterford that had we won the Cup, the Club would have turned the corner and gone onto to build on that.

Why? Let's be honest - getting to the Cup final was a great achievement in itself. What would have happened differently had the club won? Not a lot. It got the exposure and day the in the sun, it attracted 3000 fans to a game - winning wouldn't have changed any of that. Your argument, to me, seems on a par with Dublin City claiming that becuase they have "Dublin" in their name, everyone's going to flock to them.

I'm sorry, but none of this is adding up at all for me.

[BohDiddley]

Good post WWS. Now, I'm not being smart with this, but can you tell us what sport can, after you take away handouts and tax breaks? Maybe golf. Perhaps rugger, because it is associated with money anyway. Even if horseracing is viable now, would it have been so without the massive taxpayer investment over the decades?
IMO sport is valuable in itself in whole host of ways, and should be better supported from the public purse. And football should be getting more of the pie, based on the most recent participant figures. The question is, are we prepared to stand by and let historic football clubs die?

all of us have to examine the fact that football in this country does not currently generate the revenue required to meet the costs it now takes to run.....

[tiktok]

Why? Let's be honest - getting to the Cup final was a great achievement in itself. What would have happened differently had the club won? Not a lot.

To be fair, being in the Setanta Cup and The UEFA Cup during the week of the Tall ships event would have attracted some attention. They certainly wouldn't have played without a shirt sponsor for the first month/six weeks of the season.

It might not have saved them but it would have contributed a nice bit of dough IMO.

[pineapple stu]

To be fair, being in the Setanta Cup and The UEFA Cup

Hmmm...had forgotten about the Setanta Cup actually. A non-televised game against Carmarthen isn't worth that much though, I'd say. Even Cork are talking about making negligible money from the Ekranes game.

Still, they managed last year without the Setanta. They had plenty of advance warning that they wouldn't be in it this year. Their problem seems to be budgeting - i.e. spending more than they have - by a huge amount. No excuse for that, especially with £100k profit from Murphy.

A shirt sponsor is worth what - E50k a season? So to lose one for one month is probably a loss of E5k. Nothing you can't get over.

[pineapple stu]

To be fair, being in the Setanta Cup and The UEFA Cup during the week of the Tall ships event would have attracted some attention. They certainly wouldn't have played without a shirt sponsor for the first month/six weeks of the season.

It might not have saved them but it would have contributed a nice bit of dough IMO.

Incidentally, my scepticism on this issue is partly aroused by this thread on the UCD forum, in which Waterford fans claimed their club was secure and that at the last AGM, shareholders were told the debt was E30k. This seems complete nonsense now. I'm just trying to work out how Waterford can go so pear-shaped in such a short length of time - and failing - and then taking things with a pinch of salt.

Best of luck to Waterford, obviously, as I've said before, but I still don't think what's being said here and on other threads is the full story by a long shot.

[anto eile]

1: Only a fool, or someone with something to hide will come out and deny that tax evasion is going on in some clubs. Most people, myself included, aren't close enough to state it as fact. But the dogs on the street are rarely wrong.

2: It all depends whether the Revenue have the bottle to pursue it and that will be dependent on a number of factors such as their current workload, how rife they think it is and crucially if they think they can prove it etc.


The Revenue may well be rattling the trees in the hope that magically the tax returns from EL clubs will increase over the next few months.

1:true
2:they do. Rovers are simply the first in a long line of 16/17 clubs going to find themselves answering to the Revenue. dont be surprised if many EL figures see charges brought against them

as for shels. common sense. shels income: poor crowds + advertising + sponsorship versus outgoings, still wont ad up,theyve the most expensive squad in EL history.only fools with their head in the sand would believe theres nothing fishy oging on.and theres olly byrne too.thats nearly proof alone that something dodgy is going on at tolka park!

any doubters re shels should remember at the close of the 2003 season shels had a shorfall of E300,000 to pay wages over the winter. (the european run didnt rake in milions either)
as much as 17 clubs in trouble with the revenue.its the likes of kilkenny i would say that are not in too much trouble.the reason they (and 2or3 others) are consistently bad is becasue thery run on a realistic budget- E80,000 i believe is kilkennys budget

[pineapple stu]

We have no large debts to speak of.

Waterford United has only 1 week left.

These comments also don't add up - if you have no large debts at all, why have you only one week left? Clubs - or any business for that matter - don't go out of business just because they make a loss over a short period.

[wws]

If you budgeted for 3000 a week, then (a) that's stupid and (b) that'd easily cover the E9k costs (3000 @ E10 average = E30,000 every other week). Why budget for the second highest crowd in the league and the second lowest costs? Doesn't make sense..

they got just over 900 ppl for the 1st round of the cup (supposedly the country clubs biggest gate of teh year) - also it COSTS 2500 euro minimum to stage an eircom league game in Dublin (before a punter even enters the ground) plus in the league of ireland you do not play a home game every other week - in fact waterford are in trouble precisely for this reason - they will now go almost a month with no home game in july-august

now try and budget......

[pineapple stu]

Two week anniversary of WUFC having one week to live - what's the latest?

[Poor Student]

Two week anniversary of WUFC having one week to live - what's the latest?

I reminded Patizan of this in a topic a little while ago but he was rather quiet.

[wws]

Two week anniversary of WUFC having one week to live - what's the latest?

update: theyve lost every decent player they had and i think have now gone 10 without a win.....is this living????

[bigmac]

As far as I can gather, the latest situation is still pretty grim. I'm not living in the country (though I still have a season ticket for the RSC) but I'll outline the facts as I have heard them. It should be noted though, that although I know people heavily involved in the club, both playing, coaching and other staff, I myself have nothing to do with them officially and this is not gospel at all. I will try to put the issues as objectively as possible.


Our former chairman Ger O'Brien resigned recently, a decision which was generally welcomed within the community of Waterford fans. As has been mentioned on this thread, he was subject to quite a bit of personal abuse over his running of the club. This abuse centered mainly around the events concerning Jimmy McGeough's removal as manager and the presence of Ger O'Brien's son in the squad for the last few seasons. It was felt that Kevin (his son) was in the team only due to pressure on the manager from his father and that his wages were excessively generous for a player of his calibre.

The money from the Daryl Murphy transfer then went to pay off a debt to Ger O'Brien, although I am unsure as to how much of the money paid off how much of the debt. Reports suggest that the entire fee covered a large percentage of the amount outstanding.

An effort to decrease wages was made by offloading players such as John Frost to Pats. AFAIK, Doherty was sent back to Shels but when they refused to terminate the loan agreement early, the league adjudicated that WUFC were responsible for paying his wages for the rest of the season. To the best of my knowledge, the manager was told that he could take a pay cut and remain as a player but he would not be continuing as manager, hence he went to Shels (can't really blame him, he's getting a great deal there). Giles Cheevers, the coach, then took over the managerial reins on a temporary basis.

Giles has now left to take up a coaching post in the US and the new manager is Brendan Rea, former manager of Junior League side Waterford Crystal (played Longford in the cup recently). Confidence amongst the players seems to be pretty low, and some points are desperately required to get some belief back into the squad.

On other issues, the PLC is to be dissolved with WUFC returning to a private company. The major shareholders (of which I believe there are 6, including Ger O'Brien) will nominate 3 directors to the board and the otehr shareholders, through the PLC, which will now become a dormant company, will nominate one. This is mainly to remove the obligations that exist under corporate law for reporting and auditing accounts, which were costing the club around 10,000 a year. In its present situation, obviously any money saved is significant.

At the recent AGM, accounts showed a significant amount of money still owed to Ger O'Brien and Yvonne O'Brien, I believe in the region of 40K and 20K respectively for work undertaken while in control of the club. These figures are unconfirmed however. There was also reference to a six figure sum in the region of 150K due to GOB, however, I am not sure if this is the Murphy transfer or additional to that.

Opinion part:
However there is a tendency amongst a proportion of the Waterford fans to seek to apportion blame wherever they can. GOB was (as has been mentioned) subjected to abuse and hassle, then Greg Pheasy (the next chairman) had to resign as it was affecting his business adversely, then Cheevers was blamed, then Rennie, God knows who's next. Businessmen who put money into the club are castigated for trying to protect their investment, and businesses that don't invest are castigated for not caring, it seems that it's a no win situation really. As regards solutions, until we can get a good (>1500) regular home attendance, the club will be going nowhere. It'll be up to the new board of directors to try to create a more local following for the team, and hopefully, bringing a junior league man in as manager can help foster links with the local clubs. For the moment though, survival in the premier this year could come down to the game against Rovers coming up.

[pineapple stu]

update: theyve lost every decent player they had and i think have now gone 10 without a win.....is this living????

Yep. Ask any Omagh or Coleraine fan.

Thanks for the update, bigmac.