Thanks for the support everyone. If we had the same level of empathy from some of the wealthy burghers of Waterford, we'd be in the clear.
Well, if the revenuew says we are safe I'll believe themOriginally Posted by WeAreRovers
I'll wait for HM Customs and Excise and Inland Revune in our case. On an unrelated point, there is no way that the Revenue up here would have accepted the deal that Rovers got. We offered them £0.70 in the £1 the last time out and that was rejected.
Best of luck to the Waterford fans, but it's another case of complete mismanagement. Not just the EL club, but the whole football structure in this country. EL clubs are paying the wages they are paying because they have no other choice in order to stay competitive. What we see with Waterford is the result when reality kicks in. All splashing the cash in order to achieve success, the reality is only a couple of clubs can actually win trophies and thus reap the rewards of their investment. Shels are a good example, because unless they can continue to win the league every year and stay successful, they will be in big trouble.
Instead of spending silly money on wages for what are by and large average players, clubs should be investing in long-term projects such as youth academies and centres of excellence. To actually produce some real talent with technical ability. Instead most EL clubs have mickey mouse schoolboy and youth set ups. The structure from the grassroots up is all wrong and it's amazing that clubs in a country the size of ours, where football is the third sport behind GAA's two, think that they can survive professionally without youth academies. Only in Ireland. That's why the EL will never be taken seriously, because the structures of each and every club, no exceptions, is a joke compared to those across the water and in the rest of Europe. Hopefully Packie Bonners Technical Development Plan will eventually change this situation, but knowing the careless attitude of Chairmen and the people who run football in this country, it probably won't. And people here wonder why Irish fans watch English football instead of the EL.........this thread is one of your answers, because the way it is run is a joke, that's why.
Anyway, best of luck lads in trying to keep the club a float. Waterford are probably heading for a few years of what we had to put up with in Limerick. We're only looking a bit healthier now because of a 'sugar daddy' of sorts, albeit a miserable (and worryingly, an increasingly crazy) one
incidentally they didnt accept the deal the examiner put to them, they absgtained, if they had voted against we would be out of bizness now and if they had voted for it would have set a precedent, fact is they knew liquidation meant zilch and they were happy for the chance to use Rovers to frighten others into paying up
by accounts waterfords tax issues are not too bad - they just cant meet the outgoings with the incomings, best of luck WUFC
clubs with tax debt and assets - grounds, training facilities, bars, players on top contracts - those clubs need to watch out, revenue could force them to liquidate assets to meet liabilities
Ive enjoyed having Waterford in the top division the past 2 years. They played exciting football at the start but gradually turned into a team of shin kickers.
The RSC is a huge problem IMO. Its not enjoyable to go to a game of soccer there.
1 Stand and the rest is railing and you are miles away from the pitch. There is no atmosphere created or any sense of matchday experience.
THe RSC and Waterford are not enticing enough.
Well even at that in a place like Waterford they should at least be getting 1500-2000. The big problem with EL clubs is that they are signing players which come back from England paying them anything up a grand a week and lets face it, these players are players rejected from England. They were only on a fraction of what they are getting over here now. Such players are demanding too much from smaller clubs. Imo its the players that are doing the damage to the league. There are too many players demanding too high of wages while at the same time underperforming resulting in small attendances. Instant problems. Yes the league is improving with such players but not to the extent that every club has to go bust. Not every good young player has to be a player on return from England to be good. Therefore the League needs to introduce wage caps with substantial bonuses based on performances instead of basic wage increases, which would put players in their places, making them work harder. The easiest money made in this country at the moment is playing soccer, play bad and you just get a bit of stick but you still get your grand at the end of the week.
Anyways, best of luck Waterford, you'll be back but you and others should learn from this.
One sentence I thought I'd never hear and it doesn't bring as much happiness to me as I thought it would...more a sense of harsh realism..
It seems like only a couple of weeks ago that Waterford were flying along...
The Model Club
Tell all the Bohs you know
that we've gone and won two-in-a-row
and it's not gonna be three
and it's not gonna be four
it's more likely to be 5-1.
Wasn't O'Brien virtually hounded out by the abuse and vitriol he was getting from certain fans?
I seem to remember the poster who started this thread having a go at him many times on the BTID board.
How do you expect to get investors in when all they can expect is abuse from the more vocal fans?
It's sad to see Waterford in this state, but how much do you, Partizan, know of the real story? Are you directly involved with the club and know the financial situation, or are you just a very worried fan? You've made claims that winning the cup would have been worth €1,000,000 to WUFC, a claim that seems ludicrous to me.
I'm more than happy to contribute to Waterford, but to whom and for what?
Would any money collected be just to pay of the rest of what Ger O'Brien is owed, or would it go towards the running of the club? If the club has been so badly run, as seems evident, whats the point in giving money to those who will just continue to waste it?
just a few points struck me reading these
1) waterford isnt a special case - what happened to them is actually what is happening now at each of the premier clubs to a lesser or greater extent as they all operate in the same commercial environment
2) Clubs are not meeting costs from football generated income - in effect LOI crowd revenue and associated spin offs do not even meet say half week to week club expenditure. Posters who still believe the revenue streams are there from the core of the business of football in this country are deluded - only blind investment - if ure lucky to have a sugar daddy expecting no return or major blue chip backing (in effect no club really has this to the level im on about) is bridging the gap between outgoings and incomings
3) Clubs got Tax Clearance certs so they satisified the revenue that they were either a) in full tax compliance or b) that they had agreed a full schedule of repayments for outstanding tax liabilities (these can take the form of special deals etc and can be revoked at any time on defaulting) - all perfectly above board
Its hard to have this debate, but its one that has to be brought up - most people here run for the cover of club loyalty - "its them, not us" but all of us have to examine the fact that football in this country does not currently generate the revenue required to meet the costs it now takes to run.....
Hopefully it isnt true that Waterford could go to the wall. But I would say to supporters to get together . It seems an ideal situation for a supporters trust to be founded and get helping the club if possible with a view to the trust eventually running the club. We're lucky from the point of view that the club is doing great and our trust is to help bring the club to the next level, not to run it. We're trying to represent supporters and bridge the gap that oftens exists between club management and it's supporters. It's alot of work but worth it both for the club and it's supporters.
The main point of a trust is that it's independant and people who wont back the club for whatever reason will support an independant supporter driven organisation. It's just an idea but it's been proved in the past that the ppl to save a club are it's supporters.
Last edited by garykelly; 20/07/2005 at 9:58 AM.
Branvard got a tax clearance certificate by lying about the real amount of money they owed Revenue. The real figure only surfaced when the examiner went through the past few years' accounts. I'd imagine that Revenue now realise that if Branvard pulled the wool over their eyes others are doing likewise. The reality is that there is several million euro of unpaid tax in our league. The Eircom League is, by and large, a criminal enterprise. The sooner supporters realise that the better.
A TCC means sod all I'm afraid. It doesn't mean that you are either tax compliant or have agreed a schedule of payments. All it means is that one Revenue official saw your accounts and signed off on them. As The Rovers case proved this can can come back to haunt you if and when the Revenue wake up and take a proper look at your affairs.
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
yeah well I wasnt accounting for bare faced lying of branvard (or any others) but from what ive heard some clubs have already initiated the actual bits and pieces of agreeing settlements with the Revenue - ie pats for one - there bill is still massive though....but as far as I can make out is far from hidden or unknown to the revenue
What's the deal with Cheevers?
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
He's gone to accept a job in the US.
Now that's loyalty!
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
With the club seemingly crumbling around him I think he has a responsibility to his family as well (I assume he has one) not to turn down a good job offer, no?
It's not often I say this but I was impressed with Pat McCourt, a Rovers player, who said he couldn't leave until the end of the season. Why couldn't he do the same?? Or at least wait until the last possible moment.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
McCourt is evidently quite talented and in high demand. I'm not saying Chivers isn't talented but can he go knocking back opportunities and expect to receive more offers in the same way young McCourt can?
I suppose but it just seems like the cowards way out to me.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
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