UEFA Euro 2028

[backstothewall]

Formerly, when games were rotated between Ravenhill and Lansdowne, the protocol was always that the "home" anthem would be played i.e. GSTK in Belfast, the SS in Dublin.

I think there may have been some sort of fuss at a game in Belfast when some Munster players refused to come out of the dressing room until GSTK was over(?), but it ceased to be relevant when they stopped playing in Belfast anyhow.

While Ulster/NI players and fans accepted that the SS would continue to be played at LR (twice, when you add in the Presidential salute!), even after Ireland's Call was introduced, this latter being the only anthem used when Ireland plays away matches.

Which was all fine and dandy while Ireland only played home matches in Dublin. But when (I think) the redevelopment of Lansdowne necessitated that in 2007 Ireland play in Belfast for the first time since 1953, in a pre-RWC warm-up against Italy, the protocol should have required GSTQ to be played.

Now I don't think anyone in Ulster rugby, player, fan or administrator ever expected that that would or should have happened. But instead of seizing the opportunity to take the politics out of the game entirely, by scrapping the SS and simply using IC for all games, home and away, the IRFU bottled it, and blithely announced that IC only would be used in Belfast.

And when asked why this would be so, an unnamed spokesperson literally replied: "We always only play IC when our games are played outside Ireland" [my emphasis].

That was the first inkling for many rugby fans in NI that the Ireland team was no longer an apolitical all-island team where Ulster was always as influential and involved as either Leinster and Munster (sorry, Connacht). Instead it was becoming just "The Republic's team, with the odd Nordie as support act".

And when you look at how, in the age of professionalism, central IRFU funding and resourcing subsequently seems to have concentrated on Leinster, to the detriment of Ulster (and even Munster), it explains why some, at least, in NI who always fully subscribed to the Ireland team, are no longer quite so invested.

Very sad.

It was handled awfully.

They simply had to say that they would be happy to play a NI anthem before future games held north of the border if/when there is one.

[Fixer82]

Irelands call is a joke.

It’s true GSTK is to be played officially in Belfast but sense has prevailed.

There are so many songs we could sing that we already have.

Danny Boy/Londonderry Air for example

[seanfhear]

Zombie / Fields of Athenry / Other, Medley perhaps !

[EalingGreen]

Irelands call is a joke.

It’s true GSTK is to be played officially in Belfast but sense has prevailed.

There are so many songs we could sing that we already have.

Danny Boy/Londonderry Air for example

It makes complete sense that GSTK not be played in Belfast (or anywhere else in Ireland, Obviously).

For it is the National (i.e. political) Anthem for only one part of the island.

Meaning that by exactly the same reasoning, the SS should not be played in Dublin.

Which demands a single, non-political Anthem for the Ireland rugby team, whether playing home or away.

[EalingGreen]

It was handled awfully.

Agree.

They simply had to say that they would be happy to play a NI anthem before future games held north of the border if/when there is one.

Why have a NI anthem i.e. distinguish between where they are playing? That would only make sense if they played eg Molly Malone when playing in Dublin, or Galway Bay when playing in, er, Galway.

The fact is, it is one team, so should have one anthem, to whiich all may adhere.

Meaning that that anthem cannot be identified with either of the two political entities on the island, to the exclusion of the other.

[backstothewall]

Agree.

Why have a NI anthem i.e. distinguish between where they are playing?

We don't. We don't have a flag either.

If the clown show on the hill agreed it was going to be Danny Boy or something and it was officially recognised it would be entirely right to play that and Ireland's Call if Ireland had a home game in Belfast.

But it's not the IRFUs fault that they couldn't agree on the colour of ****e.

[EalingGreen]

We don't. We don't have a flag either.

No, but what's that got to do with the IRFU? Which already has its own (non-political) flag:



Meaning that if the IRFU can adopt a flag which is apolitical and acceptable to all, why cannot they do the same for the anthem?

If the clown show on the hill agreed it was going to be Danny Boy or something and it was officially recognised it would be entirely right to play that and Ireland's Call if Ireland had a home game in Belfast.

This doesn't make sense. It shouldn't matter whether some sort of "agreed" anthem from Stormont is acceptable or not. I mean, what if a subsequent Assembly then decided to switch to something else?

Fact is, Stormont, or Leinster House for that matter, should not determine how the IRFU orders its affairs for a single, all-Ireland team, playing in a politically divided island. And if you are going to choose to play the National Anthem of one part when playing in one jurisdiction, then you should be consistent by playing the other National Anthem when playing in the other.

Which is decidedly NOT what anyone is advocating, for any number of reasons.

In the end, it is one team, which should have one anthem. And that anthem should be equally acceptable to all adherents.

But it's not the IRFUs fault that they couldn't agree on the colour of ****e.

No-one is saying that any of that is the IRFU's fault.

Rather we are talking about that which is the responsibility of the IRFU itself.

On which point, even though rugby fans from NI, the great majority of whom will be British/Unionist, don't complain, neither does that justify the IRFU taking advantage of that forebearance.

Or to put it the other way, why do you think the SS should be played at the AVIVA? (Ealing Green reaches into the larder for some more popcorn)

[Olé Olé]

The Wales team that beat Croatia last night:

[Olé Olé]

The Wales team that beat Croatia last night: Ward, Roberts, Rodon, Mepham, Davies, James, Wilson, Ampadu, Williams, Brooks, Moore

Can we field a better side than that?

We are not anywhere near maximizing our resources

[pineapple stu]

Albania - a country dying on its feet with a domestic league on a par with ours - are on the cusp of winning their group ahead of Poland and the Czechs. Neither a Holland/France, granted, but we couldn't even get a point off Greece

Luxembourg are unbeaten in their group except against Portugal

There's a couple of other examples too - Moldova for one

We're definitely not maximising things

[CSAD]

What irritates me more than anything is looking at how bad Romania,Slovakia and even Albania were in their NL campaign, yes even worse than us, and then you see how easy a qualifying group they get placed in for the euros and yet we never…NEVER get that same kind of fortune. Let’s not forget if it wasn’t for the fact we were co hosts in 2020 we would have got a group with Germany and Netherlands then so we would have looked at getting 2 groups in a row with 2 big footballing nations as seeds 1 and 2.

[seanfhear]

Maybe ~ We need a Lucky General as Napoleon would like.

[EalingGreen]

Let’s not forget if it wasn’t for the fact we were co hosts in 2020 we would have got a group with Germany and Netherlands then so we would have looked at getting 2 groups in a row with 2 big footballing nations as seeds 1 and 2.

So you were in Pot 3, due to poor enough results leading up to the draw; you consequently get drawn in a Group with Netherlands and Germany (plus Estonia as 5th seeds); but then you get redrawn into a new group with Denmark and Switzerland (plus Gibraltar), on the basis that you were due to host a few Finals games which never even happened in the end. And you seem to consider that that was unlucky?

How d'ya think the team who got redrawn into your original group felt?

[CSAD]

So you were in Pot 3, due to poor enough results leading up to the draw; you consequently get drawn in a Group with Netherlands and Germany (plus Estonia as 5th seeds); but then you get redrawn into a new group with Denmark and Switzerland (plus Gibraltar), on the basis that you were due to host a few Finals games which never even happened in the end. And you seem to consider that that was unlucky?

How d'ya think the team who got redrawn into your original group felt?

It wasn’t luck though, the draw had us in the German group and the only reason we got out of it was down to the fact we were co hosts, literally no other reason.

The point I’m making is you see teams like Slovakia and Romania who were even worse than us when it comes to form get nice cushy groups and we literally never ever get that same level for fortune. If we miraculously qualified for the Euros in 2024 we’d probably have a group easier than our bloody qualifying group which seems mad.

[backstothewall]

No, but what's that got to do with the IRFU? Which already has its own (non-political) flag:



Meaning that if the IRFU can adopt a flag which is apolitical and acceptable to all, why cannot they do the same for the anthem?

This doesn't make sense. It shouldn't matter whether some sort of "agreed" anthem from Stormont is acceptable or not. I mean, what if a subsequent Assembly then decided to switch to something else?

Fact is, Stormont, or Leinster House for that matter, should not determine how the IRFU orders its affairs for a single, all-Ireland team, playing in a politically divided island. And if you are going to choose to play the National Anthem of one part when playing in one jurisdiction, then you should be consistent by playing the other National Anthem when playing in the other.

Which is decidedly NOT what anyone is advocating, for any number of reasons.

In the end, it is one team, which should have one anthem. And that anthem should be equally acceptable to all adherents.

No-one is saying that any of that is the IRFU's fault.

Rather we are talking about that which is the responsibility of the IRFU itself.

On which point, even though rugby fans from NI, the great majority of whom will be British/Unionist, don't complain, neither does that justify the IRFU taking advantage of that forebearance.

Or to put it the other way, why do you think the SS should be played at the AVIVA? (Ealing Green reaches into the larder for some more popcorn)

We're way off topic here so this won't be a point by point rebuttal, and it will be my last post on the subject.

Not only could the IRFU adopt an anthem that is apolitical and acceptable to all, they already did so. It's called "Ireland's Call". To be fair it might not be acceptable to the vast majority of people with functioning ears, but it's apolitical.

What they choose not to do is start adopting individual anthems for 2 political units that don't exist as far as rugby is concerned, or using the anthem which in the context of international rugby is used to represent another country (who just happen to be Ireland's biggest rival). So when they play in the political jurisdiction of the Irish Republic they play it's anthem. When they play north of the border I assume they would be happy to play the anthem of that jurisdiction were one to be agreed, but for now it simply doesn't have one.

They are clearly doing what they can to include as many people as possible, while ****ing off as few as possible. Stopping playing Amhrán na bhFiann in Dublin would **** a lot of people off. Playing GSTK in Belfast would **** almost everyone off, and likely be booed to death by local supporters from every background. Picking some other song to represent the north would please very few and place the organisation in the firing line politically. There is no agreement on an anthem to represent NI, and it's not the job of a sporting federation to decide which one ought to be used.

Very few rugby fans are unhappy with the status quo, and there is no option available to the IRFU that will **** off less people than what they already do. What you are pushing is a solution in search of a problem. I know plenty of rugby fans. I've been to both Ulster and Ireland matches with them. None of them are offended, annoyed or even care about this. Is a complete none issue.

Apologies to the mods for the off topic post. It will be my last on the subject.

[Larry 'da' Wyse]

Big 'No Casement' flag at the Slovakia game last night in Windsor. Clearly embracing plans for 2028. Sacred hour!

[Fixer82]

We're way off topic here so this won't be a point by point rebuttal, and it will be my last post on the subject.

Not only could the IRFU adopt an anthem that is apolitical and acceptable to all, they already did so. It's called "Ireland's Call". To be fair it might not be acceptable to the vast majority of people with functioning ears, but it's apolitical.

What they choose not to do is start adopting individual anthems for 2 political units that don't exist as far as rugby is concerned, or using the anthem which in the context of international rugby is used to represent another country (who just happen to be Ireland's biggest rival). So when they play in the political jurisdiction of the Irish Republic they play it's anthem. When they play north of the border I assume they would be happy to play the anthem of that jurisdiction were one to be agreed, but for now it simply doesn't have one.

They are clearly doing what they can to include as many people as possible, while ****ing off as few as possible. Stopping playing Amhrán na bhFiann in Dublin would **** a lot of people off. Playing GSTK in Belfast would **** almost everyone off, and likely be booed to death by local supporters from every background. Picking some other song to represent the north would please very few and place the organisation in the firing line politically. There is no agreement on an anthem to represent NI, and it's not the job of a sporting federation to decide which one ought to be used.

Very few rugby fans are unhappy with the status quo, and there is no option available to the IRFU that will **** off less people than what they already do. What you are pushing is a solution in search of a problem. I know plenty of rugby fans. I've been to both Ulster and Ireland matches with them. None of them are offended, annoyed or even care about this. Is a complete none issue.

Apologies to the mods for the off topic post. It will be my last on the subject.

Yep. Well said.

It’s the unmusicality and beigeness of Ireland’s Call that irks me but so far it’s probably the least offensive option.

[NeverFeltBetter]

RTE have a good article up that goes into the various issues, financial or otherwise, at play for Casement: https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/20...ment-park-row/

There's enough rancour and potential rancour there, alongside the inevitability of spiralling costs and who covers them, that the obstacles may be insurmountable.

[tetsujin1979]

Second Captains had the vice chairperson of Crusaders FC on last week talking about it, well worth a listen as well

[Eirambler]

More fluff from Sunak today about Casement. He really is an awful politician, but that's a topic for somewhere else.

Doesn't sound like there's any real likelihood of the place getting rebuilt for Euro 2028, the Irish Government and the FAI should now be making it clear that we have another stadium as good as ready to go and are happy to host the five additional games to help out our less developed neighbours up in Belfast.