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QuoteMaybe after Covid / The War / Massive Recession = = UEFA might not be as fussy as it once was ! !Originally Posted by EalingGreen
For Ekarerinburg, the Russians deliberately built a stadium with a hole at one end, OUTSIDE of which they could build a temporary 18k stand which could be dismantled afterwards, and all secured, no doubt, by the usual brown envelopes stuffed with non-consecutive folding stuff for select Blazers at FIFA.
https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017...utside-stadium
Good luck with trying that at PuC!
Last edited by EalingGreen; 23/03/2022 at 10:32 PM.
Maybe after Covid / The War / Massive Recession = = UEFA might not be as fussy as it once was ! !
Not in disagreement but the comment was Cork is more likely, however unlikely, than a stadium in NI hosting games. If Casement gets built, it will be to GAA specs - which presumably means an extra expense + rebuild on top of that to get it to European Championship standard. Cork is more financially viable imo as there is a structure in place and the financials would be specific to upgrading it to European Championship requirements.
Does a venue in Belfast or Cork make any difference to the English FA?
Galway. But not a soccer specific stadium.
As you will know we are currently trying to build a 35k stadium in Andytown for Ulster GAA. This would primarily serve as a new HQ for Connacht GAA, but Connacht Rugby or Galway United could use it if they thought they could draw in a crowd. And there would be concerts and that sort of thing. It wouldn't be a white elephant.
Last edited by backstothewall; 24/03/2022 at 8:20 AM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
"Uefa confirmed that Russia, the subject of a series of sporting bans after the invasion of Ukraine, had joined Turkey and the UK and Ireland in submitting declarations before Wednesday’s deadline."
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...uros-1.4834260
I'd like to think our bid might beat Russia's. Turkey would be a great place for a Euros.
I agree on Turkey actually. A big footballing country that's never really reached its potential and that has never hosted a major finals, but has a lot of decent options available to it. Bit like Russia in 2018.
my post was in relation to the use of temporary seating as an issue.
the temporary seating installed in CP for football and rugby was fixed directly to the concrete terracing without the need for a scaffold. I am sure something similar might be possible for PuC
Probably the second best team at the 2002 World Cup but yeah I suppose they don’t generally do as well as they could alright.
That's not how it works.
UEFA awards tournaments on the basis of which host can offer the most money, in two respects. First is how much money it will raise for themselves (gate receipts, TV, corporate etc). The other is how much they can screw out of governments (stadium rebuilds, facilities, infrastructure etc), with the latter providing a "legacy" for the game, both locally and generally.
Meaning they are not in the business of providing a legacy for other sports, and will only authorise the use of another sport's stadium if they have no other choice (see following).
Whilst in addition, the local football association - in this case the FAI - will not be happy to see a chunk of their government's sports budget go to another sport (GAA), since every Euro which went to Cork would be one less Euro which could go to soccer.
Yes!
If Belfast can come up with a stadium, then in return for its vote, it has to get games there, even if it is a non-soccer stadium ("Hobson's choice"). Beyond which, Casement would also have the support of the IFA.
Similarly, the other Associations must each get to host games. In the FAI's case this will be the AVIVA (and just possibly Croke, though I really doubt it).
But even if UEFA sanctioned Cork/PuC; and even if someone were somehow to come up with the many millions to bring it up to UEFA standard; and even if the FAI somehow supported it, the English FA would still be opposed.
For that would be using up a place which could instead go to Sunderland, Sheffield, Milton Keynes, Brighton etc.
I'd say they don't mind so much about the ownership of the stadium so much as it being available to soccer. They've held plenty of games down the years in municipal stadiums owned by the local government or universities in countries where that's how things end to work. For that reason I'd say Lansdowne Road is more likely to be used than Croke Park.
It would increase the chances of UEFA going for Galway if the ownership of this hypothetical stadium was something like Lansdowne Road. Perhaps a 50% stake owned by the GAA and 50% owned by Galway City Council or the state.
Given the obvious association of President Higgins with both Galway and the sport it would tick the legacy box if Galway became the permanent venue for the Presidents Cup as a curtain raiser to the domestic season.
Edit: Turkey is a big threat on paper. Bigger than i think a lot of people realise. But given events in Ukraine I'd imagine there will perhaps be a reluctance to take a chance of the leadership of Erdogan remaining benign. Holding the last World Cup in Russia doesn't seem so great in retrospect.
Last edited by backstothewall; 24/03/2022 at 12:35 PM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Casement Park, hello.
If Belfast can come up with a stadium ….
And if Belfast can not come up with a stadium, is that not favourable for Cork + Dublin? Meaning the FAI can host a group and not just individual games? A legacy for the sport on a national basis and not just centered on Dublin? Uefa and a national government could roll in behind that surely?
How many millions would it take to upgrade PuC?
(Turkey sounds more practical btw)
Galatasaray won the UEFA Cup and the Super Cup in 2000 as well. They get huge crowds at (some) club games, but they've never built on it really - I think they tend to be very short-termist. They'd rather spend ten million on an ageing top striker than develop a proper youth structure.
Erdogan's a nut, but he'll build a new stadium for any locality that supports him and I think he'd play UEFA's games better than us (the English were shown to be hopelessly out of their depth when bidding for the 2018 World Cup - though that's more a slight on the bids they lost to really). That'll surely be better than saying "Here's a GAA ground that we might be able to redevelop if we can get around the politics". You can say there might be crowd trouble at some games, but then it was the English who were the main culprits at the last Euros.
If I'm not mistaken, Turkey put in a bid for each of the last 4 or 5 Euros including the 2024 one. I'm not sure though whether that means they are overdue a successful bid, or whether that shows they don't have enough friends in UEFA to ever be successful.
Is Turkey/Russia a joint bid, or did I read that wrongly somewhere ? Anyway, there is surely not a hope in hell of UEFA awarding Russia anything in the present circumstances, and probably the foreseeable future.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
Two different bids in everything I've seen.
Sorry, but there is NO chance that UEFA will permit Groups to be hosted in GAA stadia in either Cork or Galway, both of which would require many millions to be spent on them to bring them up to standard, in cities which are hardly hotbeds of soccer (no offence).
Finals tournaments are ALL about money. That's why they extended them from 16 teams to 24. But then they found that only the same few countries (Germany, France, Spain, Germany etc) would be able to host a Finals that big, so they then allowed joint bids. And as we saw with Austria/Switzerland and Poland/Ukraine etc, this persuaded their respective governments to spend enormpous sums on building shiny, new stadia for soccer, thereby expanding the game locally and enhancing the prestige of the local Associations etc.
As for your mythical 50:50 ownership split for a stadium which would cost millions to upgrade which will not be available, even if by some chance it did happen, the GAA will not want to give up their own control, nor the local council want to take on 50% of the maintenance costs for the next 50 years.
When England was bidding for the 2018 World Cup, they sent the Prime Minister, Prince Willaim and David Beckham to Switizerland to present their case. And by all the stated (emphasise) criteria for a bid, their case was an excellent one.
They were given a polite hearing, some tea and buns and then were sent on their way empty handed.
And without meaning any disrespect to the man whatever, but your average UEFA Exco member couldn't pick President Higgins out if he was lined up in an identity parade of one.
They don't give a stuff about the President, never mind the President's Cup, unless he's got a big fat cheque in his back pocket, made out to the relevant people.
I don't quite know why Turkey always gets the cold shoulder with their repeated bids, to both FIFA and UEFA. They're a decent footballing nation with some big clubs and a President who's prepared to build whatever number of stadia are required, in order to enhance his - and Turkey's - image.
It may be political eg the FA's of Greece, Cyprus and Armenia probably aren't too keen; it may be distrust of Erdogan; it may even have a whiff of Islamophobia? Though I'm really scratching around on this one.
Just as eg FIFA came up with an exception to permit temporary seating in Ekaterinburg in 2018, or UEFA for Porto to have two stadia in 2004, if all else fits, these bodies will make exceptions.
And the reason they might just make an exception for Casement would be if that was the only way NI could host a group and it had the support of the IFA (plus the acquiescence of the FA, who could hardly object). While Belfast is a big enough city with a decent football pedigree. And on the political front (big "P"), Belfast could be sold on the usual "Sport across the border", "supporting the Peace Process", "bringing fans together" spiel.
Whereas there is no need to bring in GAA stadia in ROI, since they already have the AVIVA, and the FAI would not support state funding for sport going to the GAA which could go directly instead to soccer, especially when they (FAI) are bringing the tournament to the country in the first place, not the GAA.
Dublin will get a group. If the AVIVA can accommodate all the games needed, then that will be it. But if not, then they'll rope in Croke, because (ahem) it's in Dublin, and because it should take much (any?) to upgrade.
There is no way the relevant authorities will agree to a GAA stadium in Galway or Cork (Clones anyone? lol), if only because that would deprive the FA of one more suitable, existing English venue, when they would already be having to "concede" venues to Cardiff, Glasgow and Dublin, and possibly also Edinburgh and Belfast.
I have no idea, but it will be many millions.
For when eg the European Super Cup came to Belfast, the IFA had to spend a small fortune on the stadium (media, corporate etc) and lay a brand new pitch. And that was for a Mickey Mouse event in a modern(ish) football stadium which was barely half full.
PuC doesn't even have cover over 3/4 of the stadium ffs, never mind 30k seats.
People forget that there were 7 games staged at Wembley before the Final, without any trouble*.
And the FA have clearly persuaded UEFA that the Final was a one-off, with its own peculiar circumstances which needn't be repeated. Which is why UEFA have since awarded the 2022 "Finalissima" to Wembley, plus the 2024 Champions League Final.
* - Barring a few very minor incidents at the England semi-final, but no more than any big match anywhere.
Cressida Dick ~ Dicked that Final ~ ~ Total Policing Failure from her.
Why not lobby for a Windsor Park exception, on the points raised above? Or is UEFA more likely to make an exception for a proposed, non-existent GAA stadium with the required capacity, rather than an existing stadium with a below requirement capacity?
It’s not happening without State support. And what the FAI can offer as is is the Aviva. So anything beyond the given use of the Aviva is a plus for the FAI – even if the primary beneficiary of extended State support is a GAA structure. But from the State’s perspective, wanting beneficial spread beyond Dublin, an acknowledged need to do, is a push facilitator for an additional and non-Dublin venue.
I don’t think Croke Park is a runner for reasons stated earlier.
But if the FA has conceded Belfast as a host venue, and this subsequently does not materialise (which is the most likely scenario), does this not open the door for the replacement use of an “non English” venue?
This is another issue with Casement. Even if Casement is built in time for 2028, it will be a GAA stadium to GAA specifications. To meet EC requirements, an additional small fortune would need to be spent to bring a newly built stadium up to standard, no? Agree, the super cup is a mickey mouse event but surprising Belfast’s decent football pedigree could not extend beyond a barely half full Windsor. But I suppose UEFA would be looking at visiting fans filling stadiums?
But the structure is there, and from a cost and time perspective, it seems a lot more viable bringing PuC up to scratch than a Casement Park that does not exist.
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