OK, I can see that 2028 will improve ROI's chances of qualifying, while the prospect of ROI playing 2 or 3 group games at home in Dublin will help greatly as well.Originally Posted by yurt
But what then? Where is the legacy for the FAI, or football in the ROI generally? Fair enough, you might say that it's not costing them anything for the above benefits, except that it seems Leo V. has promised a contribution to the £100m+ cost of rebuilding Casement in Belfast. Why isn't that money going to the LOI imstead, say?
(OK, that last is a rhetorical question, we all know it's all to do with politics and nothing to do with football)
Would you prefer that casement park isn't used in 2028?
My understanding is that if you didn't use casement park in the tender you couldn't be considered as hosts, due to the situation with all other stadia in northern Ireland?
Given the bid already includes 5 stadiums in England, and 1 each for the other associations, I'd say hell will freeze over before England gets a 6th.
If Casement wasn't ready and it wasn't possible to have a second venue on the island, Murrayfield seems like the venue to be added to be used as a replacement.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Don't see a reason it shouldn't be Croke Park. London has 2 stadia involved. So why can't Dublin?
Because London has hotel capacity and a reasonable public transport system?
Because uefa insist on all seater stadiums?
Er, London, a city of 10 million people; thousands of hotels; the most extensive urban transport network system in Europe and 5 international airports also has Wembley stadium, to hold the final before 90k spectators.
While Spurs is just about the most modern football stadium in Europe, having cost £1bn and holding 62k. Both are football stadia btw.
Which conforms rather better to UEFA's requirements, here from Euro2024:
"Per Host City several Stadiums can be proposed if Bidders are able to demonstrate that the requirements for accommodation, mobility (especially public transport and airport capacities) and security for all UEFA target groups can still be met in case of multiple matches overlapping"
As such, London is by far the most feasible city to be permitted two venues, even over cities like Glasgow or Manchester, both of which have a rather greater footballing heritage than Dublin (no offence). The fact that Croke is not even a football stadium doesn't help much, either.
In fact London, with over a dozen professional football clubs, incl seven in the PL alone, plus Wembley and Twickenham, could damn nearly hold the whole tournament on its own! (OK, slight exaggeration, but still.)
Agreed: Casement, if built on time and in accordance with UEFA's strict specifications, is "the only show in town".
And that being so, if NI were to qualify, then I guess I'd accept it. If NI weren't to qualify (very possible, tbh), then I'm not sure I would want to see it used, for a whole variety of reasons. And no, these reasons aren't "Political" (large "P"), but rather a combination of football politics (small "p"), plus what would be an outrageous waste of public finances* to build a stadium to hold 3 or 4 football matches between eg Norway and Romania, when schools, hospitals and roads etc are crumbling.
* - The official figure is already £100m+, if it ever should get built, I confidently predict it will be £150m+. I'd happily a fraction of that figure, to build the IFA a National Training Centre and spruce up our local IL grounds and youth facilities etc, even if NI wasn't able to host Euro matches.
"plus what would be an outrageous waste of public finances* to build a stadium to hold 3 or 4 football matches between eg Norway and Romania"
But it would then be used the whole time by the GAA? they are entitled to government funds too!
What would be brilliant in my opinion but be to also have a 6 nation game in Casement park ( against France or Italy might be wise to start off!)
I think Aviva have specified that, as part of their sponsorship of the stadium, all rugby tests have to take place at Aviva stadium
Ireland teams that have played in Thomond Park are either "Ireland A" or "Ireland XV", or it's been classed as a friendly
Yeah, that's my understanding. The Irish government funding commitment to the Casement redevelopment is "indirect", and through the funding it gives the GAA. Seems to be a significant shortfall in meeting the Casement costs regardless, that the redevelopment might not go ahead at all? If so, that opens the consideration door for Croke Park.
Last edited by ifk101; 12/10/2023 at 11:15 AM.
Aviva Insurance would have to be compensated there's no question about that , I just think it would be brilliant as a one off. We have two jurisdictions on this island and the other one, has to my knowledge never been given an International game and that's just simply isn't fair
Ravenhill had a warm up game against Italy before the 2007 World Cup. IIRC we needed a last minute try to win, and it was debatable that the ball had actually crossed the line.
In many ways, it foreshadowed what happened at that tournament.
If we'd lost, it would have been our first loss to Italy in the six nations era.
OK. Here is as brief a synopsis of the background as I can reasonably give.
As part of the "peace dividend" etc, Westminster originally pledged £140m (or thereabouts) around 2005 to build a shared stadium, to be used by all three codes, on the site of the former Maze Prison. At the GAA's behest, this was to hold 48k i.e. somewhere half way between Clones and Croke. Anyhow, this was both for political reasons, but also because HMG owned the site, and couldn't think what else to do with it (still don't!). Anyhow, the whole scheme fell apart when the accountants in the Finance Dept. at Stormont pointed out that the project would never pay its way - it's a former RAF airfield stuck out in the middle of nowhere ffs, as such things are, and which explains why they later chose it to build a prison!
Anyhow, when that fell apart, they instead decided to reallocate the money to the 3 codes, each to build/rebuild a Regional Stadium, as follows. Rugby, v.much the little brother, got £14m to rebuild Ravenhill, from 14k to 18k capacity, which they were apparently happy with.
GAA were allocated £62m to rebuild Casement, to which they would add £15m of their own = £77m.
The IFA were also allocated £62m, from which they would use £26m to rebuild Windsor, and the remaining £36m for Sub-Regional Stadia, this latter sum only to be payable when the 3 Regional Stadia were completed. Which was all fine for both Rugby and Football, both of whom completed their projects on time* and within budget.
The GAA's plan, however, was a clusterfcuk from the start. First they proposed a grandiose 38k stadium which was never going to pass Planning Permission, for a variety of reasons. They were told this, but arogantly bulled on regardless, until the local residents' association, who had been ignored throughout, took them to Court with a Judicial Review, which they won. (Even Antrim GAA members weren't happy eg over the loss of their Social Club etc).
They eventually came back with a second plan for 34k, which imo should never have passed either, until the SDLP Sports Minister granted it anyway, during one of the rare periods when Stormont was actually opening and functioning, what with first SF, and then the DUP walking out etc. Net result was that for over a decade, Casement itself was completely derelict, and Antrim GAA played their games at Corrigan Park, which even after renovation in 2021, still only had a capacity of 3.5k, including 600 seated. (This alone indicates that there is hardly demand for 34k, never mind 38k or 48k, esp when Clones at 36k etc is still for available for Ulster County games, closer to the centre of the 9 counties, and not subject to 20% VAT on ticket sales etc).
Not only that, but during nearly 15 years of entirely avoidable delay inflation, which has hit the Construction extra hard, has seen the GAA's own cost estimate from earlier this year rise to between “£112m and £140m – not including VAT.” Yet not only are they demanding the government bail them out for the extra £35-£63m, they are refusing to stump up any extra themselves, despite the delay/increase being essentially no-ones fault but their own!
And now, the government has said they will meet this cost in order to host 3 or 4 Euro games in 2028, which might not even feature NI, while no-one really believes the build cost will be kept to £140m. Worse, many consider that even if/when it is built, being a GAA stadium it still may not conform to UEFA's exacting standards for tournament stadia, and/or even if it does, it might not be completed on time for their June 2026 deadline.
Let me make clear that I have no problem whatever with the GAA getting their original £62m, and I could possibly accept a few million more to host the Euro's etc, but considering how local football clubs could do with this huge wedge of extra money - local GAA clubs too, for that matter - trhis is simply unjustifiable imo. And all that's before you look at the state of NI's schools, hospitals and roads etc, worse still the proposal to introduce water charges in NI, at the same time as much of Lough Neagh, which supplies half of Belfast's drinking water, is quite literally toxic at the moment with algae and pollution.
* - IFA was delayed a bit because of a Council screw-up, but was covered by insurance.
No offence, but I'd say Michelle O'Neill and Jeffrey Donaldson will be celebrating the birth of their 3rd or 4th love child before that happens!
Not that it takes away from your point but just in the interest of discussion Clones is down to 26k, I’ve been to the last two Ulster finals now and I would dread the thought of 36k being in the place. It’s also prettty dilapidated now (Casement pre closure basically).
Pretty good synopsis above from Ealing Green.
Andytown is the most unsuitable place imaginable for a major stadium. There are at least half a dozen better sites around the city. The land should have been sold off for much needed housing. They could have had a stack of apartments facing The Felons Club and then a mixture of townhouses and semi's in behind. They might have got 100 homes onto that site.
The latest design is simultaneously both too big for Antrim, but not big enough to be a new provincial HQ for Ulster. But that design includes a terrace behind the goal at the Bog Meadow end of the ground so it will presumably have to be changed to allow it to be used for games in a European Championship.
This will be a disaster.
Last edited by backstothewall; 12/10/2023 at 11:39 PM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Croke Park = = Here we come again !
Yea wasn't there some controversy as God Save The Queen should have been played as the pre game anthem, but they (IRFU) managed to worm their way out of it.
Good article today in the Athletic, suggesting the Euros should go from 24 to 32 teams
It would be just 12 extra games overall, wouldn't appreciably dilute the quality any more than going from 16 to 24 did
And we'd surely qualify ?
https://theathletic.com/4949328/2023...shared-article
Formerly, when games were rotated between Ravenhill and Lansdowne, the protocol was always that the "home" anthem would be played i.e. GSTK in Belfast, the SS in Dublin.
I think there may have been some sort of fuss at a game in Belfast when some Munster players refused to come out of the dressing room until GSTK was over(?), but it ceased to be relevant when they stopped playing in Belfast anyhow.
While Ulster/NI players and fans accepted that the SS would continue to be played at LR (twice, when you add in the Presidential salute!), even after Ireland's Call was introduced, this latter being the only anthem used when Ireland plays away matches.
Which was all fine and dandy while Ireland only played home matches in Dublin. But when (I think) the redevelopment of Lansdowne necessitated that in 2007 Ireland play in Belfast for the first time since 1953, in a pre-RWC warm-up against Italy, the protocol should have required GSTQ to be played.
Now I don't think anyone in Ulster rugby, player, fan or administrator ever expected that that would or should have happened. But instead of seizing the opportunity to take the politics out of the game entirely, by scrapping the SS and simply using IC for all games, home and away, the IRFU bottled it, and blithely announced that IC only would be used in Belfast.
And when asked why this would be so, an unnamed spokesperson literally replied: "We always only play IC when our games are played outside Ireland" [my emphasis].
That was the first inkling for many rugby fans in NI that the Ireland team was no longer an apolitical all-island team where Ulster was always as influential and involved as either Leinster and Munster (sorry, Connacht). Instead it was becoming just "The Republic's team, with the odd Nordie as support act".
And when you look at how, in the age of professionalism, central IRFU funding and resourcing subsequently seems to have concentrated on Leinster, to the detriment of Ulster (and even Munster), it explains why some, at least, in NI who always fully subscribed to the Ireland team, are no longer quite so invested.
Very sad.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 13/10/2023 at 6:41 PM.
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