1st Division - Season 2022

[GUFCghost]

Having a confirmed fixture list this early is good, I can remember a time when the league was a lot more disorganised.

I was recently searching through old foot.ie forums to see what the reaction was to summer football, it was mostly negative. Interestingly nobody discussed the impact it would have on European football at all. I'd love to see an actual comparison of which countries do better in Europe and what impact summer football has on that. It should be worth noting that Mayo has a summer league, if the biggest GAA county in Ireland can do it so can anyone else.

[pineapple stu]

I'd love to see an actual comparison of which countries do better in Europe and what impact summer football has on that.

RSSSF says the countries with summer seasons are Belarus, Estonia, the Faroes, Finland, Georgia, Iceland, Ireland, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway and Sweden.

Really all of those except for us and Georgia - maybe the Baltics too; not sure - do it for weather reasons. Though Russia and Ukraine recently abandoned summer football to improve European results - the logic being it impacted clubs when Nov/Feb games were outside the regular season.

I think when you look at how Bohs and Dundalk nearly caught PAOK/Vitesse on the hop this year, you can see there's a value to it. I think in a group stage match, both those sides would have lost comfortably. Bohs (and UCD) beating Dudelange was given a boost by Dudelange being in pre-season; fitness to an extent (though pro footballers keep fit in pre-season; it's their job) but also in not being used to playing with new players or working with a new manager.

But the value to it is more than offset by the bigger picture, that the LoI is a shrinking ship all on its own in Irish football

[pineapple stu]

Actually, I suppose you also could compare Georgia's UEFA position in 2016 (the last year before they switched to summer football) to its position now (after five seasons of summer football, its coefficient is now entirely summer football)

They were 40th, and now they're 47th...

[sbgawa]

What gets me is the *****s running the ddsl are now breaking from mid Dec to Feb anyway

[sullanefc]

Summer season has improved the product massively. Dont think theres a doubt about that.

This.

[EatYerGreens]

RSSSF says the countries with summer seasons are Belarus, Estonia, the Faroes, Finland, Georgia, Iceland, Ireland, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway and Sweden.

Really all of those except for us and Georgia - maybe the Baltics too; not sure - do it for weather reasons. Though Russia and Ukraine recently abandoned summer football to improve European results - the logic being it impacted clubs when Nov/Feb games were outside the regular season.

I think when you look at how Bohs and Dundalk nearly caught PAOK/Vitesse on the hop this year, you can see there's a value to it. I think in a group stage match, both those sides would have lost comfortably. Bohs (and UCD) beating Dudelange was given a boost by Dudelange being in pre-season; fitness to an extent (though pro footballers keep fit in pre-season; it's their job) but also in not being used to playing with new players or working with a new manager.

But the value to it is more than offset by the bigger picture, that the LoI is a shrinking ship all on its own in Irish football

The Baltics would doubltess be for weather - the clue is in how the term is used in English !

As well as Georgia, Kazakhstan is a mixed-bag re weather and Summer football. It's such a huge place that parts of the country are freezing in the winter whilst at the same time you could sunbathe in the capital Astana (a bit like the US really). The northern bit of Georgia can get very cold in Winter too, so you can see why weather would play at least some role in a Summer season switch there.

[pineapple stu]

Well true, even if Hiberno-English* slang isn't entirely the most scientific method to evaluate football seasons!

Latvia/Lithuania/Estonia are by the sea, which should help them a bit. This week the Baltic capitals are looking at -8 or so (and that's at the coldest, which is in the morning), compared to Moscow or Rovaniemi at -20. Even Warsaw is going down to -16 this week. So they're not as bad as others. -8 is still very cold (and it'll get colder again in Jan/Feb), but quite playable. But they could certainly manage a Jul-May season with a winter break. They've just never changed over from the USSR summer league schedule, and reaching the group stages or even the knock-outs (which is why Russia/Ukraine changed) has never been a worry.

So there's definitely an element whereby our phraseology could be more accurate, even if "Baltic" is a cool word!

Reykjavik and Torshavn are actually around 0 or a couple of degrees above this week, but I think they've a culture of indoor sports during winter when the sun's rarely up, and then outdoor sports during summer.

There aren't any clubs in the north of Georgia really (probably because it's so mountainous and inaccessible). They did change their season after getting independence, and then changed back. I'm sure it's online somewhere exactly why they changed, but I can't find it after a brief google (and keep getting result on Georgia the state...)


* - is it Irish-specific actually? In my mind it is, but don't know if the phrase is used elsewhere.

[EatYerGreens]

Well true, even if Hiberno-English* slang isn't entirely the most scientific method to evaluate football seasons!

Latvia/Lithuania/Estonia are by the sea, which should help them a bit. This week the Baltic capitals are looking at -8 or so (and that's at the coldest, which is in the morning), compared to Moscow or Rovaniemi at -20. Even Warsaw is going down to -16 this week. So they're not as bad as others. -8 is still very cold (and it'll get colder again in Jan/Feb), but quite playable. But they could certainly manage a Jul-May season with a winter break. They've just never changed over from the USSR summer league schedule, and reaching the group stages or even the knock-outs (which is why Russia/Ukraine changed) has never been a worry.

So there's definitely an element whereby our phraseology could be more accurate, even if "Baltic" is a cool word!

Reykjavik and Torshavn are actually around 0 or a couple of degrees above this week, but I think they've a culture of indoor sports during winter when the sun's rarely up, and then outdoor sports during summer.

There aren't any clubs in the north of Georgia really (probably because it's so mountainous and inaccessible). They did change their season after getting independence, and then changed back. I'm sure it's online somewhere exactly why they changed, but I can't find it after a brief google (and keep getting result on Georgia the state...)


* - is it Irish-specific actually? In my mind it is, but don't know if the phrase is used elsewhere.

I've no idea what the above is about really Stu. Minus 8 is fcuking cold. Hence why people in a number of English-speaking places (not just Ireland) use 'Baltic' as a way of describing cold weather. That doesn't mean there are no places colder than the Baltic countries - whether or not they're by the sea. And I don't really care about the weather forecast in Poland or Russa either, truth be told

It's honestly hard to know if some of your posts are a wind up, an attempt to show off, a desire to appear superior or simply looking to pick an argument sometimes

[pineapple stu]

The point is simple - some colder countries (eg Russia) don't play a winter season. Summer seasons (eg Iceland/Faroes) aren't necessarily because of freezing cold (though I can imagine short winter days there causing problems with pitch maintenance)

-8 is quite ok for playing football in (I've been at a match in Ukraine in -12 for example).

So why do the Baltics have summer seasons? Is it because of the weather? A bit, but not entirely (which is what I said in my original post you challenged). But there's likely tradition behind it too, going back to the USSR, and there's no really compelling reason to change.

So I don't agree it's "doubtless to do with weather" as you suggest

Edit - actually, I see Estonia and Lithuania both changed to a winter season (with a winter break) immediately on gaining independence, and stayed that way for most of the 90s before changing back. That'd suggest weather isn't "doubtless" the reason for their current setup, and possibly European results were a consideration too. Can't find anything online about the change back though after a very brief google.

[sullanefc]

I've no idea what the above is about really Stu. Minus 8 is fcuking cold. Hence why people in a number of English-speaking places (not just Ireland) use 'Baltic' as a way of describing cold weather. That doesn't mean there are no places colder than the Baltic countries - whether or not they're by the sea. And I don't really care about the weather forecast in Poland or Russa either, truth be told

It's honestly hard to know if some of your posts are a wind up, an attempt to show off, a desire to appear superior or simply looking to pick an argument sometimes

Mega lol!!!

[EatYerGreens]

The point is simple - some colder countries (eg Russia) don't play a winter season. Summer seasons (eg Iceland/Faroes) aren't necessarily because of freezing cold (though I can imagine short winter days there causing problems with pitch maintenance)

-8 is quite ok for playing football in (I've been at a match in Ukraine in -12 for example).

So why do the Baltics have summer seasons? Is it because of the weather? A bit, but not entirely (which is what I said in my original post you challenged). But there's likely tradition behind it too, going back to the USSR, and there's no really compelling reason to change.

So I don't agree it's "doubtless to do with weather" as you suggest

Edit - actually, I see Estonia and Lithuania both changed to a winter season (with a winter break) immediately on gaining independence, and stayed that way for most of the 90s before changing back. That'd suggest weather isn't "doubtless" the reason for their current setup, and possibly European results were a consideration too. Can't find anything online about the change back though after a very brief google.

This could genuinely be filed under any one or more of the categories for your posts I outlined earlier

[pineapple stu]

A solidly-thought out counter-argument there, along your usual levels.

Well done.

[Hitman]

Treaty United: How to build a squad in three days
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59746860

[sadloserkid]

The journalist spent a good chunk of his childhood/teenage years growing up in Co.Limerick.

[DCSIL]

According to the Daily Star, Treaty United may have been promoted...

https://twitter.com/seanphilipoconn/...49912272908291

[Longfordian]

They've joined the Irish League too. They kept that quiet.

[EalingGreen]

I was recently searching through old foot.ie forums to see what the reaction was to summer football, it was mostly negative. Interestingly nobody discussed the impact it would have on European football at all. I'd love to see an actual comparison of which countries do better in Europe and what impact summer football has on that.

The Stats Zone did a detailed statistical analysis of the effect of a summer football season versus a winter one, here:
https://www.thestatszone.com/archive...s-europe-13762

In reading it, I would urge the following cautions:
1. It's five years old;
2. It reallly only covers three countries - Den (Winter) and Nor & Swe (Summer);
3. It only covers a relatively small number of clubs over a comparatively short period, meaning that one or two particularly well-run clubs could skew the results - see eg FC Mitjelland.

Therefore it may suffer from having too small a sample size as to be reliable.

All that said, here is a summarised version of their conclusion:
"To conclude, we have looked at Scandinavian teams’ performance in the European cup competitions and split it by summer and winter leagues. From our data we cannot say that there seems to be an advantage to playing in a summer league when it comes to European qualifiers. In fact, Danish sides figure more frequently in the tournaments and on average perform better when they do... ... So in terms of raising the European Cup performance, could it potentially be a wise move for Norwegian and Swedish teams to consider playing similar format to the winter leagues?"

P.S. I'm pretty sure Denmark used to operate a summer season, then switched to a winter season a few years back, though I can't find out exactly when.

EDIT: The Danish League was a summer one from 1958, switching to a winter league for 1991/92.
[Also, Danish professionals playing outside the country were prevented from playing for the (amateur) National Team until 1971, with the domestic league only permitting professionalism from 1979.]

[sbgawa]

I think this is a classic case of a study that isn't needed. (Eg. Rte news some time ago "A study has shown that single parent families are more at risk of poverty"). I'd ask this question is it more likely that a team will win their first round in European competition if they are in preseason and thus not fully match fit and sharp or if they are mid season and fully match fit and game ready?.

[ifk101]

The Stats Zone did a detailed statistical analysis of the effect of a summer football season versus a winter one, here:
https://www.thestatszone.com/archive...s-europe-13762

In reading it, I would urge the following cautions:
1. It's five years old;
2. It reallly only covers three countries - Den (Winter) and Nor & Swe (Summer);
3. It only covers a relatively small number of clubs over a comparatively short period, meaning that one or two particularly well-run clubs could skew the results - see eg FC Mitjelland.

Therefore it may suffer from having too small a sample size as to be reliable.

All that said, here is a summarised version of their conclusion:
"To conclude, we have looked at Scandinavian teams’ performance in the European cup competitions and split it by summer and winter leagues. From our data we cannot say that there seems to be an advantage to playing in a summer league when it comes to European qualifiers. In fact, Danish sides figure more frequently in the tournaments and on average perform better when they do... ... So in terms of raising the European Cup performance, could it potentially be a wise move for Norwegian and Swedish teams to consider playing similar format to the winter leagues?"

P.S. I'm pretty sure Denmark used to operate a summer season, then switched to a winter season a few years back, though I can't find out exactly when.

EDIT: The Danish League was a summer one from 1958, switching to a winter league for 1991/92.
[Also, Danish professionals playing outside the country were prevented from playing for the (amateur) National Team until 1971, with the domestic league only permitting professionalism from 1979.]

Well ..... is the Danish league a strictly winter league? Add to that, net pay is more "generous" in DK.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, that seems to argue that the Danish league is better than the other two. There's no consideration of any other factors. Seems a fairly silly article really