Innocent Muslims treated like Irish in70's London

**joeSoap** · 13/07/2005, 11:22 AM

Was listening to an interview with some leader of the Muslim faith in London on the radio last night, and he made a point that I thought was kinda interesting. Condemning the bombings and bombers, he said he felt that 99.9% of the muslim community who are innocent, hard working people will now be tarred as guilty terrorists, as the Irish community were in Britain in the 70's and 80's because of the IRA.

He urged for such discrimination not to take place but cited incidents where members of the BNP and National Front had already began campaigns against innocent civilians.

Sad, but inevitable given todays society that these reactions will occur.

**Gareth** · 13/07/2005, 11:30 AM

Its human nature unfortunately to hate. If you have the option to hate a person cos he could be a terrorist or not hate cos they mightnt be, the unfortunate trurth is many people will hate.

**dahamsta** · 13/07/2005, 11:47 AM

My sister's childminder is muslim, and someone in her family has decided to leave Britain after the London bombings. She reckons it'll be the final straw.

adam

**joeSoap** · 13/07/2005, 11:50 AM

What a sad sad indictment on Human Nature... I was in London on Sunday and travelled by tube. The amount of people that got off because some muslims were travelling was amazing. One muslim man cried openly. It was heartbreaking to see.

**Dublin12** · 13/07/2005, 11:56 AM

Unfortunatley you don't have to look as far as London,this sort of thing has happened in Dublin at some of the mosques

**paul_oshea** · 13/07/2005, 12:23 PM

he said he felt that 99.9% of the muslim community who are innocent

is this a fair reflection? because i have been reading about muslim extremists within london itself, who authorities now beleive make up at least 5% of the "general" muslim population....dont want to open a can of worms but...

I am part of a muslim newsletter in work, I joined it a year ago as I was always very interested in their beliefs, and it is very enlighting, however I have to say that some things that are said within this newsletter are, not inciteful - in a hatred sort of way - or anything like that, but they are extreme in some beleifs/ideas, now if they are extreme in these ideas, does that mean others ( followers )can be as extreme, in ideas related to non muslim followers i.e. infidels.

just to give an example of something that i thought was strange, they were organising a fundraiser for the society, for whatever reason it was cancelled, and a sentence read something along the following:
"for those who have helped, it will not be felt or seen on the outside, but on the inside, and come the day of reckoning he will not stand in the shade but out of the shade, he will be judged superior when presented before allah for his actions"

now the words, actions, superior, shade and reckoning were all used, and in the sort of context above, i am unable to remember it word for word, I just thought that it was an extremely sensitive( for use of a much better word) piece to write, for such a small thing, but yet inciting at the same time.

basically what im trying to say is that if they feel, and use words like above to describe such small things, then surely some can interpret certain things within islam to justify their actions/what they do in relation to those of non muslim faith.

**paul_oshea** · 13/07/2005, 12:25 PM

"he said he felt that 99.9% of the muslim community who are innocent "

just re-read that, does he mean that 99.9% of the innocent muslims, or 99.9% of muslims that are innocent?

**joeSoap** · 13/07/2005, 12:43 PM

Presumably tht 99.9% of the Muslim Community are innocent, and that it is a very small minority that perpetrate these atrocities. I presume he was generalising in the 99.9% figure.

**dcfcsteve** · 13/07/2005, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

is this a fair reflection? because i have been reading about muslim extremists within london itself, who authorities now beleive make up at least 5% of the "general" muslim population....dont want to open a can of worms but...

I am part of a muslim newsletter in work, I joined it a year ago as I was always very interested in their beliefs, and it is very enlighting, however I have to say that some things that are said within this newsletter are, not inciteful - in a hatred sort of way - or anything like that, but they are extreme in some beleifs/ideas, now if they are extreme in these ideas, does that mean others ( followers )can be as extreme, in ideas related to non muslim followers i.e. infidels.

just to give an example of something that i thought was strange, they were organising a fundraiser for the society, for whatever reason it was cancelled, and a sentence read something along the following:
"for those who have helped, it will not be felt or seen on the outside, but on the inside, and come the day of reckoning he will not stand in the shade but out of the shade, he will be judged superior when presented before allah for his actions"

now the words, actions, superior, shade and reckoning were all used, and in the sort of context above, i am unable to remember it word for word, I just thought that it was an extremely sensitive( for use of a much better word) piece to write, for such a small thing, but yet inciting at the same time.

basically what im trying to say is that if they feel, and use words like above to describe such small things, then surely some can interpret certain things within islam to justify their actions/what they do in relation to those of non muslim faith.

To be fair Paul, I don't see anything hugely wrong with that. All religions reckon they're the chosen ones and everyone else is fecked.

Christianity has a number of similar statements/sentiments, which if I actually owned a Bible I'd root-out.....

**Ringo** · 13/07/2005, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by joeSoap

Condemning the bombings and bombers, he said he felt that 99.9% of the muslim community who are innocent, hard working people will now be tarred as guilty terrorists, as the Irish community were in Britain in the 70's and 80's because of the IRA.

A very well made point. When my sister lived in London ( a lot of bombings at the time) , i went over to visit her & was treated like a lepper once they heard my accent. She'd had numerous jobs & was forced out of one because of being irish. Now they love us & can't wait to talk to us. We're great craic. Was thinking about it as i passed the Muslim supermarket on mary Street this morning, thought of how i felt at the time. Treating the muslim community as all being terrorists, will only drive more to become extreme.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 13/07/2005, 1:08 PM

Just saw on the lunchtime news that not only do they now believe that there were suicide bombers involved (48 hours ago they were saying there were none.) but they believe three of the four came from Leeds/West Yorkshire.

They even had quotes from an uncle of one of one who they tactfully identified as being the owner of a Chippy on Elland Road (yes ...that Elland Road). Misfortune might as well sell up and move on.

I fear an awful lot of innocent muslims are going to take an awful lot of stick for this.

from Sky http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...188946,00.html

**paul_oshea** · 13/07/2005, 1:11 PM

To be fair Paul, I don't see anything hugely wrong with that. All religions reckon they're the chosen ones and everyone else is fecked.

arrogance of religion i suppose, but thats not the point i was getting at.

**Poor Student** · 13/07/2005, 1:18 PM

I must admit when I was travelling on the metro in Paris around the time of the headscarf ban I was sitting across from an Arab kitted out in full Middle Eastern robes style. He had a bag and was pressing button inside it and fiddling with it like crazy. I got a huge fright by this. I have no idea what he was up to and afterwards I obviously realised it was nothing sinister but it scared the life out of me at the time. I felt emarrassed for judging the guy like that yet how can you help it? I in no way advocate harrassing or attacking muslims in Britain or elsewhere however it is easy to see how the cretins carrying out these attacks have brought wrath on their fellow muslims. So selfish, deluded and self righteous are those who have committed the attacks that they would bring this treatment on the people who share their faith.

**beautifulrock** · 13/07/2005, 1:23 PM

I am glad to say that I was never abused during the IRA campaigns in London even though I worked in a large office and was the only Irish person employed.

I, for one, will treat every Muslim I meet/travel/work etc as I was treated.

**joeSoap** · 13/07/2005, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by samuel

but I doubt if he was crying more than the relatives of the people murdered in the name of Islam

Or the thousands of British people who buried relatives in the 'quest to unite Ireland'...murdered by the evil scum IRA

**dahamsta** · 13/07/2005, 1:40 PM

I'd appreciate it if people would drop the name-calling, no matter how insidious the people they're abusing, and stick to the issues.

adam

**joeSoap** · 13/07/2005, 1:47 PM

Fair enough

**dcfcsteve** · 13/07/2005, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by samuel

Twas "sad" to hear of the Muslim man crying-but I doubt if he was crying more than the relatives of the people murdered in the name of Islam or certain facists interpretation of Islam. But then we understand all about when it comes to facists taking their mandate from their "faith" or "dead generations" (Pearse) to commit atrocities in our name. The problem with
Islam in Ireland and Britain however is that they have no leader with the
moral fibre to stand up and tell certain members of their community that it
is wrong to preach hatred agaisnt Jews and Gentiles. A few years back they issued a Fatwah against Salmon Rushdie because of his appaliningly boring book. But where is the Fatwah against the murderers in their midst? The Muslim communtiy will be the targets of hate because of the water and the fish explanation of terrorism once given by a Chinese political leader. The fish are the terrorsists but the water which is essential for their survival is the community in which they live and which also provides safe haven. Meanwhile why do their refer to the London dead as "innocent commuters" is there such a thing as "guilty commuters"

Islam doesn't have a centralized structure Samuel - no Pope, Dalai Lama, Chief Rabbi or Archbishop of Canterbury/Queen.

Newspapers and TV news have all reported that the attacks were condemned in mosques around the country at last Friday's prayers.

But there's no single 'voice of Islam' who can claim to represent the whole religion and openly condemn all this in a definitive manner - it's just not structured like that. The religion is very localised/fractured, and there's even numerous national representative bodies for Muslims, rather than one overarching main one.

**Metrostars** · 13/07/2005, 8:58 PM

A Muslim man has been beaten to death outside a corner shop by a gang of youths who shouted anti-Islamic abuse at him, the Guardian has learned.
...
Azad Ali, who chairs the Muslim Safety Forum, said: "You can't class this as racist, there was no racist abuse shouted at him, it was Islamophobic.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...527288,00.html

Islamophobic...now thats a new one.

**hamish** · 13/07/2005, 9:17 PM

Did I read, a couple of years ago, that what Islam needs is a sort of Renaissance/Reformation/Counter Reformation process. Trying to get my head around all that.
It was written by a Muslim btw but I'm fcuked if I can remember his name.
Maybe some Footieperson(s) might enlighten me on all this and I hope I'm on thread.