Innocent Muslims treated like Irish in70's London

[paul_oshea]

gavinzac, it wasnt just english "boys", who did this, there was a hell of a lot of planning and organisation gone into this, by many many mroe than just 4 english boys, I think everyone is missing the point somewhat, myself included.

yes any attack by a "muslim" using the word lightly here, is always going to be branded an "al qaida" attack, why? because no one actually knows who does most of them or who are they linked to, but try to associate them with one or other. al qaida is just an umbrella term now for any islamic extremists terrorist attacks.

But to say it was just four english boys is very naive. There are many organisations involved either directly or indirectly. And yes maybe some of them have "links" to "al qaida" members.

[GavinZac]

But to say it was just four english boys is very naive. There are many organisations involved either directly or indirectly. And yes maybe some of them have "links" to "al qaida" members.

i never said it was "just" four english boys. (that being the story now, it wasnt a suicide attack at first, for some reason). while its perfectly possible for four students to buy explosives (read june's FHM, the bit where Piers Hernu buys rare animals, a gun, and is offered explosives, in his local pub), set their watches and work out which four transports they can get on at the same time, its also possible they were motivated by some fanatic nut. but as it stands, there is no evidence linking them to any group, let alone specifically a group of afghanis.

[paul_oshea]

ya but gavin the tubes they got on, are the most busy of all london tubes, especially at that time in the morning.

[GavinZac]

ya but gavin the tubes they got on, are the most busy of all london tubes, especially at that time in the morning.

so? could they not research this themselves? im sure given a few days i could find out the best dublin buses to blow up as part of The People's Republic of Cork's fight for independance.

[lopez]

ya but gavin the tubes they got on, are the most busy of all london tubes, especially at that time in the morning.

I thought their research of the tubes was pretty awful myself (in terms of maximum carnage if I may for a second get my mind into psychopathic mode). They certainly hit the jackpot with the southbound Picc (crowded between Green Park and Kings X throughout the day), but the circles are very light in comparison with the southbound Victoria. Also they didn't have a clue that there are two different types of train and tunnelling on the Underground which shows that none of them certainly never spent their youth trainspotting (more's the pity). The difference being a much tighter space and therefore scope for more casualties.

[Superhoops]

so? could they not research this themselves? im sure given a few days i could find out the best dublin buses to blow up as part of The People's Republic of Cork's fight for independance.

Not remotely funny and in very poor taste

[dahamsta]

I wouldn't say it's in particularly bad taste, just stupid. Sounds like something someone from proc would say, ironically enough.

adam

[GavinZac]

Not remotely funny and in very poor taste

i should change my tag line to "trust me, im being sarcastic". i dont post at that website. i dont see the bad taste, i was pointing out that any old nut could cause this chaos.

[dcfcsteve]

You just have to look at your own post to comfirm your suspicions that it is international internet idiot day-

Some of the best military minds in Israel and US can't figure out how to put a stop to Hammas-but equally Hammas will never put a stop to Israel.

The piece about the war in Iraq making the terrorism situation worse is nonenses- 9/11 occured well before the war in Iraq and Al Queda were also behind attacks in the mid nineties.

I'm aware of the chronology of events, but it is a fact that the Iraq War has created both a major cause celebre and an actual training ground/honey pot for extremists and extremist operations. I didn't say that the Iraq War created Islamic terrorism, but it has clearly made it worse - as has been begrudgingly accepted by both the UK and US Administrations.

And I never suggested that a nuclear attack would solve anything but did point out that if there is another "spectacular" like 7/11 then the uncumbent in the white house might "get a rush of blood to the head" and who will stop him--the UN

This is just ridiculous Samuel. I guarantee you this WILL NOT happen. And do you know why ? Becuase of the simple fact that nuclear bombs need a target. Let's just say that George Bush wakes up tomorrow morning determined to use nuclear bombs to destroy Islamic extremism. Where exactly do you propose he could/should aim it ? And if they did have a list of targets - why wouldn't they just take them out by air or ground forces, rather than use something as indiscriminate and internationally unacceptable as a nuclear bomb. To summarise - no targets, no bomb. You're getting more than a bit carried away with your arguement here.

[QUOTE=Samuel] A wooly thinker above wrote that Al Queda atrocities are not attacks on the Judea/Christians principles that have sustained our way of life for centuries- the writer used the fact that Al Queda are attacking traditional Muslim countries as the basis for his argument-he is wrong in his assertion however--Al queda are attacking Muslim countries because those countries are embracing the values of the west i e democracy and the relative freedom we enjoy and are thus by definition worse than Israel or western democracies. [/QUOTE}

Assuming I'm your famous "wooly thinker" - and ? I said exactly the same in my postings above. Your point is ?

A lot of Muslim writers are admitting that vast numbers
of the Muslim population in the middle east in particular are stuck in some sort of 16th centruy time warp-some are still going on about the Crusades.

Thier is a sickness within Islam that has to be rooted out, a sickness which convinces young men that they are victims of a vast zionist/western plot
thus convinceing them that it is "heroic" to strap themselves with explosives
and detonate themselves in bus Qs in Tel Aviv, supermarkets in Madrid, and tube station in London shattering lives and bringing misery on their own communities just like the facist IRA did to the Irish community in Britain in the 70s/80s.

This is a problem that has to be cured from within by Muslims. Unless they do however the hawks in various governments in the west may be tempted to cure it permanantly.

Totally agree with you. Though I fail to see how you've made my post look like a submission for 'International Internet Idiots Day'

If your lying on a beach and a fly keeps annoying you then you will eventually roll up a paper and swat the ****er..

I don't doubt that somewhere in cyberspace a group of young Muslims angry about the Iraq War, Afganistan and Guantanamo; angry about the Israeli-Palestinian situation; and angry at the presence of infidel armies in their Holy Land are saying exactly the same thing. To people like that, 7th July was them swatting the fly that's been annoying their religion for decades. Interesting how both sides could see exactly the same thing in the same situation, but in a completely opposite way......

[Superhoops]

...i was pointing out that any old nut could cause this chaos.

Perhaps you were, but the point could have been made much more effectively without having to resort to sarcasm about a very serious issue.

[GavinZac]

Perhaps you were, but the point could have been made much more effectively without having to resort to sarcasm about a very serious issue.

jaysus youre very sensitive for a rovers fan.

[Superhoops]

jaysus youre very sensitive for a rovers fan.

Forget it, the point is obviously lost on you.

[dcfcsteve]

the swapping the fly was a quote from a top US military guy recently-remember that when it comes to swatting that the US has a much bigger newspaper to roll up and do the swatting with. They (the US) are afterall
the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons against another country.
Immediately after 7/11 a majority of people polled in the US indicated that they would have no problem with their military responding with "extreme predjudice" to any threat on their nation. After the unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbour in WW2 the Japanese admitted that they had "awoken a sleeping giant" and they paid a heavy price. I have no doubt that if they (the US) feel they are under threat they will react with "extreme predjudice"-again.
As for it being "internationally unacceptable" the war in Iraq is also "internationally unacceptable" but what can the completely useless and corrupt UN do about it- write irate letters to the Irish Times???

Yeddah,yeddah,yeddah.... .

So Samuel - who will they fire these bombs at ? Rhetoric aside, as I stated earlier the flaw in that approach is that nuclear bombs need a target.

Yet again, tell me if you will - WHO IS THE TARGET ??????

[mypost]

I have a high post count because I've been here since Day One.

That's not in dispute.

I have to deal with posters that come up with unsubstantiated, inaccurate arguments and try to set them on the right track.

This is a forum with multiple threads, with many different points of view. But, whatever a poster says about someone else's post, it doesn't change their position on the issue. So you can't set people on what you perceive to be the right track. There are several posters here, who to a certain extent, have backed what I have previously said , so we're not all idiots.

[Re: Taxi drivers]It was an analogy.

It was not an analogy. It was unsubstantiated nonsense.

[mypost]

Before the events of July 7th in London I thought the US Govt had gone overboard in its security clampdown since 2001, bringing in fingerprinting, etc, for all arrivals.
I now feel that this kind of clampdown is precisely what is needed in the UK. I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing bleeding heart liberals on 5Live whinging on about human rights and civil liberties.
As far as I'm concerned workers have a human right to go to work without the fear of being blown up.
It is now up to the British Govt to introduce much stricter security and better funding for the intelligence services. Furthermore, the Muslim community needs to start providing strong leadership and do more to stop these extremists.
If you want to live in Britain, play your part.

The USA Government doesn't go overboard with their security measures. 9/11 was their wake-up call, and they'll do whatever they feel is necessary to ensure it doesn't happen again. Their security measures have been successful so far, as there have been no Al-Qaeda attacks in the USA since September 2001. Other governments need to impose the same measures, to reduce the risks of an attack by Islamic extremists on their countries. Unfortunately, not all of them are willing to do that, and are leaving themselves more vulnerable to an attack than others.

[paul_oshea]

After the unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbour in WW2 the Japanese admitted that they had "awoken a sleeping giant" and they paid a heavy price. I have no doubt that if they (the US) feel they are under threat they will react with "extreme predjudice"-again.

it has actually been said and written in many places, that the americans were aware of a threat that day, but let it happen any way, so they could retaliate, as they had planned on using nuclear weapons on the japs.

[Macy]

Before the events of July 7th in London I thought the US Govt had gone overboard in its security clampdown since 2001, bringing in fingerprinting, etc, for all arrivals.
I now feel that this kind of clampdown is precisely what is needed in the UK. I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing bleeding heart liberals on 5Live whinging on about human rights and civil liberties.
As far as I'm concerned workers have a human right to go to work without the fear of being blown up.
It is now up to the British Govt to introduce much stricter security and better funding for the intelligence services. Furthermore, the Muslim community needs to start providing strong leadership and do more to stop these extremists.
If you want to live in Britain, play your part.

What's your feelings about internment when it was going on in the north? Was the jailing of the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six justified, as the cops thought they were the right men and besides they were irish so must be guilty of something? Do you think internment and other "justified" security responses helped break the IRA or helped them recruit more people to their cause?

[joeSoap]

Was the jailing of the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six justified, as the cops thought they were the right men and besides they were irish so must be guilty of something? Do you think internment and other "justified" security responses helped break the IRA or helped them recruit more people to their cause?

Does it really matter?? The 'framing' of the aforementioned was by and large down to corrupt, frustrated cops, particularly the West Midlands Crime Squad.

Crimes against humanity like the London bombings needed the swift respponse and arrests required to assure the public that something was going to be done about it. I also believe the evidence of CCTV etc in this case justifies the arrests made. As of yet nobody has been charged with anything, so lets wait and see...

[Macy]

Crimes against humanity like the London bombings needed the swift respponse and arrests required to assure the public that something was going to be done about it. I also believe the evidence of CCTV etc in this case justifies the arrests made. As of yet nobody has been charged with anything, so lets wait and see...

So bombing pubs wasn't crimes against humanity? Or is it different because the cause was different? The type of reaction we're seeing now is exactly the same as the 70's as a result of IRA campaigns - The Guildford 4 and the Birmingham 6 were wrongly imprisoned on the back of such pressure for results.

People should just think carefully and learn from history before supporting knee jerk reactions to terrorist threats. Particularly the Irish, and especially the Irish living in England....

[dahamsta]

That's effectively what I said earlier. Are you an idiot too?? Certain posters here believe that.

You're going down the wrong track there now mypost. If you start calling people idiots, you're going to end up calling me a fascist, when I ban you. There won't be another warning.

As to your reply to my post, I'll refer you back to the last sentence of that self-same post. It's not a matter of opinion at all, you're simply wrong, and I'm being genuine when I say that I think you should talk to someone about your beliefs.

adam