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Thread: Shamrock rvrs, Derry city two horse race next season.

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    Reserves Candystripe's Avatar
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    Shamrock rvrs, Derry city two horse race next season.

    Looking at Dundalk and St Pat's it really seems like it'll be a two horse league next season. The money Derry city are pumping in ( and it's probably not over yet) it'll be between Shamrock Rovers and Derry city. I actually can't see any team who will be within 15 points of either team.

    Thoughts?
    So if you think Bohs are big read this. http://www.astronomy.ie/perpespective.html

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    A bold assumption.

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    I might have had my doubts but your capture of Shane McEleney convinces me you’re right. ��

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    A bold assumption indeed. Derry certainly have the potential to catch Rovers, but that's all it is at the moment - potential. Be careful counting your chickens before they hatch.
    Having said all that, I for one am very excited to see how Derry progress in the coming years. I was in Derry last summer and it's such a great town. Would be great to see them push on to the next level. Interesting times ahead.

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    What? Have you missed the furore that Dundalk are signing up the team that finished 2nd this season and will be added to a proven goal scorer, 2 horse race....pure cheek...

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    Far too early to make this call. Derry's signings haven't set the world alight yet, and have mostly been bringing local players back home. Yes - McEleney and Duffy will be good additions. But important to remember that they were core parts of a Dundalk team that under-performed massively this season. And McEleneny Jnr is a genuinely curious signing for a team with notions on the title.

    Derry need to be signing someone like Georgie Kelly to genuinely signal their intent for the coming season. Or James McClean, who is clearly on the downward curve of his career in England now.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Would McClean return this year? He's said he'd like to join the 100 cap club - he's got 13 caps to go to get there, but I don't see him being part of the national team though if he's playing for Derry.

    Maybe one for 2023 rather than next season?

    Agree their signings haven't been the ones I'd necessarily sign for UCD if I had 2 billion in my pocket all of a sudden.

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    First Team Yossarian's Avatar
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    It’ll be interesting to see how Derrys signings get on. I think Duffy is one that will succeed without much question. If Derry get the Patching that was on loan to them then that’s a positive as he was generally mediocre when he returned to us albeit he had a few flashes of brilliance. Patrick McEleney is no doubt a quality player but his injury record is poor. If he stays fit then that would make a big difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Would McClean return this year? He's said he'd like to join the 100 cap club - he's got 13 caps to go to get there, but I don't see him being part of the national team though if he's playing for Derry.

    Maybe one for 2023 rather than next season?

    Agree their signings haven't been the ones I'd necessarily sign for UCD if I had 2 billion in my pocket all of a sudden.
    Yeah. McClean is only 32, so has some mileage left in him at a League 1 salary. Which will always be higher than anything Derry would pay, as it's not like they have the capacity to be able to sell many more seats off the back of a 'marquee' signing. He's also missed the boat on playing for Celtic IMO, which is something he presumably would have loved to have done.

    He always said he wanted to see out his career at Derry, so realistically he'd probably see that as joining them in his mid to late 30s. It all depends on whether or not Wigan want to keep him really, as he's only on a one year contract there. If they don't, it's hard to see anyone better than Wigan coming in for him. He brings a bit of baggage too, which woiud probably put a few clubs off.

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    First Team lofty9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    Far too early to make this call. Derry's signings haven't set the world alight yet, and have mostly been bringing local players back home. Yes - McEleney and Duffy will be good additions. But important to remember that they were core parts of a Dundalk team that under-performed massively this season. And McEleneny Jnr is a genuinely curious signing for a team with notions on the title.

    Derry need to be signing someone like Georgie Kelly to genuinely signal their intent for the coming season. Or James McClean, who is clearly on the downward curve of his career in England now.
    McGonigle will prove to be a better signing than Kelly IMO. A full pre season with us and I will have him as top league scorer. Kelly will likely take an offer in Britain. I have no problem with Big Shane coming back, good back up, good lad and now experienced and knows what is expected of him now. We've a strong local identity again. If we did ever sign Kelly, it's just another player we've developed alongside Shane, Fats, and Duffy to return. So outisde of Patching who did set the Brandywell alight on his loan, we haven't exactly pushed the boat out on signing players from left field. It looks like a much healthier recruitment policy than the recent past.
    As Irishmen we dilute our sense of nation by depending on the English to bring us our balls

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    First Team lofty9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    Yeah. McClean is only 32, so has some mileage left in him at a League 1 salary. Which will always be higher than anything Derry would pay, as it's not like they have the capacity to be able to sell many more seats off the back of a 'marquee' signing. He's also missed the boat on playing for Celtic IMO, which is something he presumably would have loved to have done.

    He always said he wanted to see out his career at Derry, so realistically he'd probably see that as joining them in his mid to late 30s. It all depends on whether or not Wigan want to keep him really, as he's only on a one year contract there. If they don't, it's hard to see anyone better than Wigan coming in for him. He brings a bit of baggage too, which woiud probably put a few clubs off.
    I'd say fitness is a huge issue in LOI players not being selected for the international team. There's clearly a massive jump. If it was anyone other than James to return to LOI i'd say their international days would be numbered. but his fitness is something else. Pie in the sky anyhow, it'll be at least July 23 before he returns. He'll try get Wigan to the Championship and if he does, he'll definitely be there for another year and a better salary.
    As Irishmen we dilute our sense of nation by depending on the English to bring us our balls

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    Seasoned Pro brendy_éire's Avatar
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    Way too early to be calling that, I think.

    There was a 24 point gap between the sides this season. I haven't seen enough change to overcome that. I think 2022 will be another comfortable league title for Shams.

    Disregarding the likes of Bohs, Sligo and Dundalk (something which we can't really do), second place for ourselves could be achievable. We were eight points behind Pats this year, so not a mountain to climb there.

    I think some City fans are losing the run of themselves a wee bit. We should be an improved side next year, but we won't have anywhere near the depth Shams will. A quick glance at their bench for recent games, they were bringing on the likes of Greene, Burke, Gary O'Neill, Gaffney, Farrugia; lads who would walk onto another any other side in the country. We'll likely have a bench of younger players, plus the likes of Shane McEleney.

    McClean shouldn't come back to us at this stage. He's making decent money in England still, and he'll want to keep playing for the national side. He'll still be picked for the Nations League games next year, but would he still be in the squad come the Euro Qualifiers in 2023? If not, that could be the time to come back.
    Have you ever won the treble?

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Kelly had a decent season undoubtedly but he wont replicate this seasons form year after year. He will be more like Conor Sammon especially if he goes to England where he will be lucky to break 10 goals a season. If he is deployed as foil(sp?) for another attacker, for hold up play, lay offs etc then he can still be very effective but Im not convinced that he is a scorer/finisher mainly as he is too brittle if his confidence drops at all. That said this season has earned him the chance to prove he is a consistent and reliable goal scorer wherever.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Bit harsh on Kelly I think. He scored goals most places he's been. 37 in three First Division seasons at UCD - a goal every other game. Then at Dundalk, 8 goals in 2019 was a decent return considering he was usually a sub - in fact, in terms of minutes per goal, it was a better stat than this season (93 v 122) Last year wasn't great of course, but in general I think his career has been steadily upwards. That's not to say he'll score double figures in the Championship next season of course, or ever - a look at Hoban, McMillan, Burke, Maguire, Towell, etc will give warnings of that.

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    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
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    15 goals from play (+ 6 penos total 21) compared to 11 for Jonny Kenny or 10 for Mark Doyle (who also scored 3 penos for a 13 total) either of whom i would rate ahead of Kelly , not to mention 15 for Danny Mandroiu although he is more of a midfielder.
    Kelly needs to cash in on this "top LOI goal scorer" with a 2 or 3 year contract somewhere and good luck to him but i think he will struggle to back it up next season.

    I actually hope Derry do sign him tbh but i will be prepared to have this thrown back at me next season

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  19. #16
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Look at it another way - without his goals Bohs would have been a side fighting relegation this season, and 21 league goals for relegation battlers is decent going

    Plus 1 in the Cup and 4 in Europe too.

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    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Look at it another way - without his goals Bohs would have been a side fighting relegation this season, and 21 league goals for relegation battlers is decent going

    Plus 1 in the Cup and 4 in Europe too.
    Only because of their bad start,
    007 is sure to do it next year

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    The manner in which those cameo goals at Dundalk were scored is important in terms of how I think things could pan out, the ball practically needed to be on the line and then bounce off him in to goal (at least twice headed sitters came off a shoulder and a Rovers fan claimed one off the shadow of a boot). For his size and height he lacked a physicality though that can be coached to be used. He isnt very mobile, through no lack of effort, lacks pace which again is grand if you have players around that make up for that, can and will play to his strengths - ball in to feet, ball in from wide giving him a chance to crash through and maybe get a head on it, using him to play in runners, set pieces especially as a decoy. Like anything I could be totally wrong but I have seen much better similar young players like him that struggled in the end, didnt progress. Game time will always help and he has been getting that over the last 2 seasons, one ropey, one good. Unless he is 1st choice at Derry and plays most games he stats will fall off a cliff which would be almost inevitable as I think Derry will continue to look for a higher calibre of player - he definitely isnt clinical enough for Europe, but then is anyone in the league really.

    Should add thoughts on the OP and not one player. Much already said, Duffy will add to any squad in a big way but for some reason was more hopeful of Patching staying at Oriel as part of a rebuild but that was always dependent on what would happen with budgets etc. He could have filled the McEleney gap and a couple of others and if he stays in LoI for a while will imo become one of the list of greats. McEleney its going to be about keeping him fit. One thing that would have been interesting is whether the pitch was contributing to injuries, if he gets an injury free run then the medical/s&c side of things would warrant looking at or at Derry getting a lot of plaudits. I think the squad was looking better very quickly under Higgins and players seem to want to have him as their coach. That's much broader than not wanting to continue playing for a coach eg at Dundalk. Whether Derry can really challenge for the 2022 league title - I think so but it would be a serious achievement and could cause some changes at Rovers who are in the jump seat. Dundalk's first tilt at the title under Kenny fell short but not by a whole lot and it was experience in closing out the latter head to head with St Pats that was the difference really. But there will be experienced league and cup winners in the Derry squad so I dont think it will take that long to gel.

    If the Brandywell can become the real old fortress it was during Derry Mk I days, were teams were almost done before KO (from just warming up up the hill ), and keep Rovers close in Tallaght, show consistency against lesser sides which I think Rovers have been sloppy on but nobody was there to capitalise, then yeah its possible. Rovers knowing that they are in a close title race could raise their game as tbh they didnt have to be particularly good to win the last couple of years. Derry should sign up players and send them on loan to Bohs and get that Dublin hoodoo going again... As every year how things go in Europe can sway a league which obviously means that Dundalk and Bohs will nip in to contention with Sligo after they are knocked out in round 1.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 02/12/2021 at 7:43 PM.

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    At the minute we are way off Rovers. I expect we have to be favourites for second alright.

    Also nonplussed on possible signing of Kelly and believe we have the best finisher in the league in McGonigle anyway.

    No doubt a few more additions to come for us, I am not sure who we could attract in Ireland that we would really want so if we really want to step up the level at the club we might have to look further afield. That itself might be for some time down the line.

    Improve, get closer to the top and I’ll be happy for next season. We will be winning leagues on due course no doubt about that.

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    Don't see Derry properly competing with Shamrock Rovers next season but they will be up near the top all season long
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