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Thread: LOI in Europe 2022

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Not really. I can understand why a Rovers fan might have taken the game cautiously - although your caution was taking things to ridiculous extremes I think - but the rest of us are looking at a low-ranked side that barely dispatched Gibraltar opposition in the first round.

    The group stage will be interesting. Whichever one it is.
    Or - a side which ran Dinamo Zagreb very close in the last round; a Dinamo team which comfortably disposed of Rovers' conquerors Ludogorets. You can look at this a few ways - although I agree we should be expecting to beat teams from countries below us in the rankings.

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  3. #1582
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightstory View Post
    I agree we should be expecting to beat teams from countries below us in the rankings.
    That's what it comes down to for me. North Macedonia is one of Europe's poorest and smallest countries, and has one of its weakest leagues (because population size, wealth, and strength of league often correlate) that's never really achieved anything in European competition (which is why it's ranked 50th). We've spoken about the mindset of players going into these games, that maybe they're not expecting to lose like before. That has to go for fans too though - so placid casual expressing caution at the idea that three defeats would get Rovers into the group stage is ridiculous, as is the idea that I'm being begrudging by saying "Well done, but it was expected" when Rovers won. It wasn't straightforward, but that's fine. Shkupi aren't complete amateurs.

    Losing 5-2 to Flora last year was as bad a result as the LoI has had in Europe in many years. It's good to see Rovers have put that behind them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    That's what it comes down to for me. North Macedonia is one of Europe's poorest and smallest countries, and has one of its weakest leagues (because population size, wealth, and strength of league often correlate) that's never really achieved anything in European competition (which is why it's ranked 50th). We've spoken about the mindset of players going into these games, that maybe they're not expecting to lose like before. That has to go for fans too though - so placid casual expressing caution at the idea that three defeats would get Rovers into the group stage is ridiculous, as is the idea that I'm being begrudging by saying "Well done, but it was expected" when Rovers won. It wasn't straightforward, but that's fine. Shkupi aren't complete amateurs.

    Losing 5-2 to Flora last year was as bad a result as the LoI has had in Europe in many years. It's good to see Rovers have put that behind them.
    I think the rule of thumb about population / wealth is a decent catch all and has validity but it can be misleading also.
    In a large scale example take Ligue 1 in France PSG operate on a budget that has no relation to the strength of the league.
    Equally Ludogorets operate outside the normal Bulgarian realm with some Pharmaceutical Billionaire paying to have them win the last 11 or 12 league titles after he bought them as a second division team , got them promoted and went on this long winning run.

    Shkupi are an Albanian team (shkupi is Albanian for Skopje) who just happen to play in Macedonia as a fait acompli after the break up of Yugoslavia and they have a rich Turkish owner and might be heading the same direction as Ludogorets.

    In general though population and wealth are a good way of considering the overall strength of the league as a whole

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    For sure - and Rovers have a billionaire backer who has put a couple of mill into an academy which produced one of the players who scored against Shkupi of course. And European cash distorts as well.

    But over the past five years, North Macedonian teams, including Shkupi, have achieved nothing in Europe and LoI teams really should be going into those games expecting to win. And Rovers did win, so fair dues. An expected win for me, but a solid one. No more than that, but certainly no less than that either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    For sure - and Rovers have a billionaire backer who has put a couple of mill into an academy which produced one of the players who scored against Shkupi of course. And European cash distorts as well.

    But over the past five years, North Macedonian teams, including Shkupi, have achieved nothing in Europe and LoI teams really should be going into those games expecting to win. And Rovers did win, so fair dues. An expected win for me, but a solid one. No more than that, but certainly no less than that either.
    The academy was there since 2016, DD only bought in 3 years ago but i take your point.
    I dont think the wealthy backers of PAts or Derry have put any less in tbh so i dont think its exactly PSG distortion in Ireland but then again the Derry Gallacticos are coming apparantly.

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    Great work by Rovers last night. That's the 4th time an Irish club has qualified for European group stages in the last 11yrs (since 2012), which is a surprising stat really. If we can continue that trend of one getting into the group stages every 2-3 seasons then I'm sure we'd take that currently - although expectations are increasing to the point where we'll soon expect it every other year.

    It does undermine the theory that our best era in Europe was the 2000s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    It does undermine the theory that our best era in Europe was the 2000s.
    In terms of comparison, you'd have to factor in the change in structures. Every other year is a fair expectation with the current format. The league's champion can lose 2 qualifying rounds and still get through to the Conference group stage.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    Tickets going well ahead of tomorrow. The east stand is nearly sold out aswell. It looks to be 6000 there tomorrow at least.
    Last edited by D24Saint; 10/08/2022 at 2:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    In terms of comparison, you'd have to factor in the change in structures. Every other year is a fair expectation with the current format. The league's champion can lose 2 qualifying rounds and still get through to the Conference group stage.

    Only if they win their first match.
    If Our Champions lose the first round another loss has them out.
    Hence why seeding so important although even then you can get very unlucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D24Saint View Post
    Tickets going well ahead of tomorrow. The east stand is nearly sold out aswell. It looks to be at least 6000 there tomorrow at least.

    CSKA are a big draw although ironically they haven't won the league in over a decade as Ludogarets have won it every year for last 10 or 11 years.
    I'm going to pop along and cheers for Pats (think about the co efficient )
    Having suffered through 73 minutes of defending a 2 goal lead last night i don't envy {Pats fans knowing every time CSKA go forward the lead could evaporate.
    Rovers didnt have to score just stop the Mad Macedonians from scoring two but i think PAts have to score if they are to go through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    In terms of comparison, you'd have to factor in the change in structures. Every other year is a fair expectation with the current format. The league's champion can lose 2 qualifying rounds and still get through to the Conference group stage.
    I think using something like 'perceived success' is needed when making comparisons (taken from RPE in sports science). Not many will almost forensically look at the arguments for or against an era being better or worse. At face value though the current era (from 2012) could easily be perceived as the most successful by LoI in Europe, simply due to participation in groups and teams progressing through qualifiers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    CSKA are a big draw although ironically they haven't won the league in over a decade as Ludogarets have won it every year for last 10 or 11 years.
    I'm going to pop along and cheers for Pats (think about the co efficient )
    Having suffered through 73 minutes of defending a 2 goal lead last night i don't envy {Pats fans knowing every time CSKA go forward the lead could evaporate.
    Rovers didnt have to score just stop the Mad Macedonians from scoring two but i think PAts have to score if they are to go through.
    Just on that, I see Bradley had a good auld rant about having to fly in to Shannon when other sides were able to fly in to Dublin and it needs to be sorted. Funny thing is, its was reported that the Rovers flight in to Dublin was diverted to Shannon due to fog. Either Bradley was playing it up for Skhupi or he is showing a bit of madness himself - he doesnt have to mention evil stuff as its just a known when Rovers are involved

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    The introduction of the ECL, meaning more European qualifying rounds, and the champions path, is a game changer for smaller leagues like ours.
    It's not unreasonable to think we could have teams regularly enough reaching group stages.
    The champions path makes all the difference. The key thing tho is that our champions win that 1st match every year. Then you've got a great chance. Having a champion with a decent coefficient and seeding gives them a massive opportunity.
    There's a big opportunity now for our top teams to really cement their place at the top of Irish football if they can stay consistently strong. Good European results now will improve seedings which make it more likely to a better draw in that 1st game in the champions path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Just on that, I see Bradley had a good auld rant about having to fly in to Shannon when other sides were able to fly in to Dublin and it needs to be sorted. Funny thing is, its was reported that the Rovers flight in to Dublin was diverted to Shannon due to fog. Either Bradley was playing it up for Skhupi or he is showing a bit of madness himself - he doesnt have to mention evil stuff as its just a known when Rovers are involved
    Other way around Nesta. It was diverted to Dublin when they failed to land in Shannon twice due to fog. Derry obviously down there with a billion euros worth of smoke machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Just on that, I see Bradley had a good auld rant about having to fly in to Shannon when other sides were able to fly in to Dublin and it needs to be sorted. Funny thing is, its was reported that the Rovers flight in to Dublin was diverted to Shannon due to fog. Either Bradley was playing it up for Skhupi or he is showing a bit of madness himself - he doesnt have to mention evil stuff as its just a known when Rovers are involved
    It was diverted to Dublin from Shannon. After a couple of attempts to land at that, before diverting.
    Havin a weekend away is quite frankly,lettin ur team mates down!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophizer View Post
    The introduction of the ECL, meaning more European qualifying rounds, and the champions path, is a game changer for smaller leagues like ours.
    It's not unreasonable to think we could have teams regularly enough reaching group stages.
    The champions path makes all the difference. The key thing tho is that our champions win that 1st match every year. Then you've got a great chance. Having a champion with a decent coefficient and seeding gives them a massive opportunity.
    There's a big opportunity now for our top teams to really cement their place at the top of Irish football if they can stay consistently strong. Good European results now will improve seedings which make it more likely to a better draw in that 1st game in the champions path.
    It's absolutely massive but as you say that first game is critical and rovers basically got the kindest draw possible in it. I think we are a few years away from thinking the ECL groups are the minimum target. We had a great draw and we put in some great performances to get there. I'd give future Irish champions a 30% chance of doing it for the next while. It's the right target but it shouldn't be seen as failure if it doesn't happen. You almost need to be seeded and then you still need to dodge so many big clubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    Other way around Nesta. It was diverted to Dublin when they failed to land in Shannon twice due to fog. Derry obviously down there with a billion euros worth of smoke machines.
    Ah, RTE reporting for ye! Uusally flights are diverted to Cork from Shannon so bit lucky on that one.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 10/08/2022 at 2:49 PM.

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    https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...adium-27707268

    Rovers enquiring about using the Aviva for the group stages……
    Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophizer View Post
    The introduction of the ECL, meaning more European qualifying rounds, and the champions path, is a game changer for smaller leagues like ours.
    It's not unreasonable to think we could have teams regularly enough reaching group stages.
    The champions path makes all the difference. The key thing tho is that our champions win that 1st match every year. Then you've got a great chance. Having a champion with a decent coefficient and seeding gives them a massive opportunity.
    There's a big opportunity now for our top teams to really cement their place at the top of Irish football if they can stay consistently strong. Good European results now will improve seedings which make it more likely to a better draw in that 1st game in the champions path.
    There were winners and losers from the current 3 year cycle of a never ending changing UEFA format. The big leagues are guaranteed 4 automatic qualifiers in the Champions League. This squeezed out some clubs who had been starting to qualify regularly.
    The League of Ireland coefficient ranking and performance was at a level where the league's champion were missing out on Europa League qualification more often than not. The introduction of the Conference League however is great for our league. It tips the balance that the league's champion can realistically qualify for the Conference League more often than not.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    This is the how the co-efficient table is shaping up for 2025, still fairly unlikely for the FAI to hit their top 30 goal but could very well be within that ballpark. https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2025.html

    Part of the jump is due to a couple leagues (Belarus and Kazak) imploding as well.

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