LOI in Europe 2022

[Philosophizer]

I think the main issue here is expectation. I sat down to watch Rovers last night hoping they'd do well, but not expecting it. I knew there was about a 90% chance they'd be beat, all things considered, and probably a 50% chance it would be a hammering. And that's how it turned out.
I had a similar issue last week when I brought a mate to watch Pats Vs CSKA. He's usually only watches top EPL and CL matches so his expectation was based on that. After a few minutes he was losing the rag at both sets of players for poor decisions and poor execution of things he thought they should be able to do easily.
I had to just have a chat with him and explain that LOI level is not the EPL or anything close to it, or even the Championship for that matter, and it never will be. Once I explained that Pats are about League 2 level, and CSKA are about Championship level, and Pats have a budget of about 1M and CSKA are many many multiples of that, he was able to see the game in a different light and enjoy it for what it was.

[Nesta99]

Ferencvaros will do quite well in the Europa League by the looks of it. You have to take in to account all the injury issues that Rovers had to contend with, but even still, the gulf in class was very evident. Reminded me of the Qarabag-Dundalk game a few years back, where Dundalk were sliced open with frightening repetition, and a hapless defensive error gifted an easy goal to the opposition, and it happened again tonight for Gannon. They were always up against it 2-0 down, but he performed the archetypal LOI in Europe defensive howler that consistently seems to be in our sides. The 4th goal is cruel in a way, as Rovers had been playing much better with the introduction of Byrne at 3-0, and for the way it bounced its way despairingly away from Mannus. Truth be told though, if they were even more clinical than they showed at times, Ferencvaros could have won 6-0 with hitting the post twice and multiple fine saves from Mannus. Rovers were unfortunately outclassed everywhere. A brutal lesson in quickness of movement, technique, pace, passing and finishing, and an eye opener ahead of the Conference League. You'd just hope that they could win on the night in Tallaght or at least not lose with Byrne playing 90 minutes to lift the morale again ahead of the Conference group stages. Rovers immediately looked better with his introduction.

Ive seen Qarabag and Larnaca mentioned a few places as a comparison to last night, and they are valid observations in the most part. Buuuttt both those chastening games came in the 2nd leg after a o-o at home to Larnaca and 1-1 v Qarabag - whether they did fooball equivalent of rope-a-dope, showed us too much respect initially, or were tactically lulling us in to a false sense of security and then struck hard, who knows and the ultimate outcome was/will be losing the tie so while its a moot point I dont think they're fully like for like examples, especially Qarabag where the 2nd and 3rd goals were in the last 15 mins and we were pushing to cancel the away goal. Larnaca was a wtf is happening being 3-0 in 30 minutes after being competative in the 1st leg - heat getting the blame but really we were set up far too high energy attack minded and slow out of the blocks also.

I think where the comparisons to last night being remotely relevant is being stubborn in how the respective sides were set up - v Larnaca Kenny was stuck on attack in energy sapping heat and Bradley stuck with his 3 at the back with wing backs that have struggled in that role. Going with a flat back 4 maybe would have made damn all difference but I dont think the 3rd, maybe the 1st would have been such calamities. Ive been critical of Bradley being too negative before so a bit damned if he does damned if he doesent, but last night was about trying to keep the tie alive and some variation of 4-5-1 would have been the more pragmatic set-up imo, with centre mid banked in front of the back line, gamble late with Byrne etc if things were going to plan and if not wrap up players for Sunday. Unless it was a case of go for it, Sunday in mind, do ok and work from there but if the tie is done there are games to come that could be less of a step up. I wanted a close game forcing an eye to be kept on next Thursday, now a dead rubber so all focus turns to Sunday rather than having to manage players' game time.

[sbgawa]

True but it further show exposes how poorly coached a team Rovers of they are that reliant on certain players to be fit to function. A well coached/ set up side should be able to cope without key players at least, it shouldn’t be like pulling the plug from the bath tub. Also with half those players available Rovers lost in a similarly naive fashion only a few weeks ago, how that is still being glossed over by some I find astonishing.

The exact same complaints being made by me and other fans after last years Flora Tallinn loss are being made now and the same lazy defense is being made, it shows that there is a real lacking in strength in character in this squad.

It further proves the point that this Rovers team simply can’t perform against adversity, they need everything to be going their away otherwise they’ll crack, it’s proven time and time again in Europe and still no one says anything…

Also maybe if they actually tried blooding more Young players like Ferizaj or Tetteh (as examples) for instance maybe they wouldn’t be so reliant on certain players being fit.

Some great batterings you mean, this Rovers team even in the conference league will get exposed. It’s easier at this stage in Europe to look good as some of the teams aren’t very good but in Europe Rovers will have to perform against similar or better teams which they’ve proven they are incapable of doing.

LOL not worth engaging with nonsense from you.
Cant perform against adversity , poorly coached , prone to crack, going to get battered in Conference league, will be exposed....
Enjoy your day troll

[Jd2793]

qarabag were very good in oriel though and should have won that game. draw was a good result on the surface but underneath that you could still see a huge gulf in class even with qarabag playing away from home. ultimately this league is so far off these teams and the quality of players they have. i can never see irish sides bridging the gap tbh. some of the players qarabag had v dundalk were unreal , similar level to that guy who was uptop for feren last night.

[Philosophizer]

You're right about the Qarabag game but the Larnaca 4-0 game was the 1st leg. I remember it well. They were 3-0 down after 40 mins. Poor Sean Hoare was roasted that day too.

[Philosophizer]

And Flora were no mugs it turned out. They got 5 points in the group last year and were still in with a chance of getting out of the group on the last matchday.
Still and all Rovers underperformed against them and should have at least Ben a match for Flora.

[Nesta99]

You're right about the Qarabag game but the Larnaca 4-0 game was the 1st leg. I remember it well. They were 3-0 down after 40 mins. Poor Sean Hoare was roasted that day too.

Ive had a few senile moments of recent but I really dont think Larnaca 4-0 was 1st leg!

Such has been my ropy memory moments I caved and double checked! (im never saying anything like I remember it well ever again ).
https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleagu...s-aek-larnaca/

[ger121]

Rovers do seem to perform poorly away from home more often than not. There are obviously a number of different factors, heat, injuries, quality of opposition, tactics etc but it does seem as though they tend to concede quite easily and heavily when away in the 1st leg. 4 games in the last 2 seasons the ties have been more or less over after the 1st leg. That is a definitive pattern and one they seem unable to fix over time. The good LOI sides in Europe over the years, tended to be very good at the rope-a-dope tactic away from home. Soak up the pressure, keep it tight, maybe even nick a goal and the tie is well alive in 2nd leg at home but largely Rovers are unable to do this against most opposition. I’d be interested to know what others think as to why this happens.

[Philosophizer]

Embarrassing 😁. Damn I'm getting old. So this is how amnesia starts...

[EatYerGreens]

Except you miss the point once again, this loss is almost in identical fashion to the way they got smashed in Tallinn last season…just look at the goals they conceded last night ffs, how anyone can sit here and not be critical I find incredible, weather they have a better squad or not is completely beside the point, it doesn’t mean you just give up and let them run all over you, the way Rovers played last night of they performed like that in Tallinn they probably would have got steam rolled a 2nd time like they did last year and pretty much like they always do in Europe.

The lack of organization or putting together even basic pieces of play is bottling it, I think you are letting them off the hook far too easily on this one.

The point is you won’t see many teams get as badly beat as Rovers did last night or see many teams roll over as easily as Rovers did last night, that’s the point, Flora didn’t spend 40+ million on their squad and they still trashed Rovers.

Look at the goal Rovers conceded last night, Even if there is a gap in quality a team of lesser quality can at least try to bridge the gap by making themselves hard to beat, Rovers don’t do that and in fact it’s the opposite, they are incredibly easy to beat as there is a real lack of sufficient coaching ability in the squad that gets exposed in Europe when Rovers play better or similar level teams. If you look at the goals Ferencvaros scored, it wasn’t like they picked apart the rovers defender, the first 3 at least were just down to absolutely laughable defending from Rovers. How many times to Rovers need to have embarrassing away performances in Europe before some fans get the point or are you just going to continue digging you’re head in the sand and act as if nothing is wrong?

No YOU'RE misisng the point.

It's knock-out competitive sport. Someone HAS to lose. And when the team that loses deserved to lose on the basis of the relative merits of the 2 teams, then no-one has 'bottled it'. Seriously - step away from the cheesy English football clichés and just see the game for what it is. Something in which someone has to lose, and in which most times the weaker team does lose. That's just the nature of competitive sport, not bottling it.

[Philosophizer]

I think there's a couple of different ways of seeing Rovers performance last night:
You could interpret it as badly organised, lazy players who didn't care enough and dig in and work hard enough to make a better first of things.
You could also interpret it as guys who were tactically and technically unable to cope with opposition players who had superior movement, skill, speed and precision, so they were just flummoxed at numerous points throughout the game because they couldn't deal with it at all. That then impacts the morale and confidence of players which compounds the situation and makes them even worse.
IMO, last night was more of the latter, and they looked like an unorganized rabble at times because the opponent just pulled them all over the place through superior quality.
But each person will have their own opinion and they're entitled to it.

[Philosophizer]

The classic tactic of dealing with a technically superior opponent is to sit deep, not allow any space between the lines, and try to hang on in there for as long as possible and hope spring a quick break or nick one from a set piece.
Rovers did the opposite of that though and were too high up with big gaps between the lines.

[brendy_éire]

I think the main issue here is expectation. I sat down to watch Rovers last night hoping they'd do well, but not expecting it. I knew there was about a 90% chance they'd be beat, all things considered, and probably a 50% chance it would be a hammering. And that's how it turned out.

I reckon you were being a bit over-optimistic there.

I thought Rovers would lose, and by a few. The injuries and heat made that more likely as well. What was disappointing was the manner of the goals. No need to go over them again, but defending like that isn't acceptable in the EL or LoI.

Maybe Bradley should take some of the blame for not changing the setup to take account of missing players, but mostly it comes down to the players. Not much Bradley can do about Gannon's clearance or Mannus not getting down quick enough for the fourth, for example.

[Philosophizer]

It was a high risk approach that didn't pay off. They still had a couple of dangerous moments in the Ferenc box, probably because they were pushed up so high. There were a couple of dangerous balls and a few chances, but overall they were way to open.

[pineapple stu]

I think there's a couple of different ways of seeing Rovers performance last night:

I think you're right, but I think also it could be a mix of those things too.

Obviously Rovers' injury list didn't help. But I think there was still an element that Rovers were outclassed far more than they reasonably should have been. Ferencvaros were cutting through at will, and the third goal in particular was inexcusably amateur. I don't think bottling it is the right phrase - that implies that Rovers were at least on an equal footing going into the match - but I don't think they particularly covered themselves in any real glory either. I think it was a poor performance, even allowing for the players missing.

That said, the new format does favour Rovers becoming the absolute dominant LoI side in the next few years, and I suppose it should be a target for Rovers to get three years of group stage qualification and significantly close the gap to that level.

[Nesta99]

Embarrassing . Damn I'm getting old. So this is how amnesia starts...

Oh no! amnesia starts as soon as your club ends up playing in the 1st division. Memory lapses are just PTSD from playing in the 1st division...St Pats and Bohs fans its just delusion or old age

Its so much away from home Ger but a first leg, I think there are a couple of issues for Rovers, and it reminds me a bit of Trapattoni's Irish sides, being cautious, players held back even when its becomes apparent that they are well able for some opposition. When having no choice but to chase a game the shackles are off they can outplay a side, get damn close to recovering a tie but had just give themselves too much to do (3rd goal in Razgrad killed an outside chance but were within a goal with 5+ mins of injury time, yeah Ludogorets scored again after but if 2-2 on agg and them down to 10 met!?). This year the way the dealt with Hibs Malta and Skhupi in the 2nd legs was progress. Then there is just the general stuff for any LoI team, a need for some luck be it draw, injuries, or hanging on for dear life and riding that luck (BATE v Dundalk 1st leg 2016) and learning quickly and turning it around. Ruthless streak is needed, Dundalk became better at it I dont think Rovers have against the better sides but they struggled to replace the Byrne/McEneff threat previous years and havent had Byrne of Burke both fit as players that will have opposition thinking twice about bombing forward which takes a lot of pressure off the likes of Agent Hoare. Greene tries but hardly tears up the league. Gaffney ive changed my thinking on but is an effective target man not a striker so wouldnt fit that well in to an injury free side that would put things on a plate for a finisher, he would still need a number of chances to convert 1. But is a player that could bring the likes of Burke in to play who is potentially a finisher from midfield/2nd striker.

[Shinkicker]

Slightly surprised at the amount of criticism Rovers are getting. Missing some key players against a very good side is going to be very tough. However I would agree somewhat with the questions over Bradley and in particular his tactical inflexibility. It's always 3-5-2 regardless of whether he has the players for it or not.

I don't believe we are being too critical of Rovers, we are just stating the facts. As a Bohs Supporter I have no problem in acknowledging they are the best team in Irish football. Overall Irish football has come on leaps and bounds and is becoming recognised for it, but we do have our limits. Bohs last year had a great season and didn't win anything. They lifted the spirits of a lot of people and hopefully attracted a few new fans. Personally I thought it was best that Bohs went out the way they did 'on a kind of high' if they made the group an lost 6 games we'd be moaning like Fcku. I believe its the same for Rovers this year. Unless they pull off something special next week. Very soon there will be a team who will progress and hold their own. I will eat my words most likely Rovers next year.

[Nesta99]

IMO, last night was more of the latter, and they looked like an unorganized rabble at times because the opponent just pulled them all over the place through superior quality.
But each person will have their own opinion and they're entitled to it.

It was mostly just the superior side, but there was some rooting about with the back 3, moving them from central/left side of a back 3 to right side, but it didnt seem to be tactical in terms of trying to gain and more like just trying out the change in hope that maybe the was more time for a short ball out or to focus the ball out to a player that was more comfortable in possession or had a better range of pass, ye'd expect that in advance. Cleary is a quality signing but if you want a central defender that can ping passes about, ye make Mark Connolly the defensive signing.

[Kiki Balboa]

Its not about losing, its about being able to keep the in the tie. Time and time again, Rovers have been smashed in the first leg without ever learning.

Is the distance between Rovers and Ferna as big as it was between Bohs (a part time team) and PAOK (who got to the quarter finals), or Dundalk (a team in freefall) and Vitesse (who got to the last 16), or UCD and Slovan? Of course not.


Bradley is a very average manaer who cant adapt. How he can be constantly in a similar situation and not be able to adjust is something Rovers fans should be wondering. You are playing in heat and missing Ronan Finn. Great! Lets stick with Gannon, basically out of position at wing back (the most physically demanding position), and play nobody in front of him for protection. Lets sacrafice a body in midfield for two 33 year olds up top and make them chase for every ball (again, in 36c heat). Only because we have been doing this all season.

The third goal is a perfect example of the disastrous set up Rovers went for. A bank of 4 Rovers players baiscally nullified 10 yards behind chasing after a 2 vs 2 situation. Terrible clearance... But if you are chasing shadows all night, this stuff happens.

[CSAD]

No YOU'RE misisng the point.

It's knock-out competitive sport. Someone HAS to lose. And when the team that loses deserved to lose on the basis of the relative merits of the 2 teams, then no-one has 'bottled it'. Seriously - step away from the cheesy English football clichés and just see the game for what it is. Something in which someone has to lose, and in which most times the weaker team does lose. That's just the nature of competitive sport, not bottling it.

So you tell me, did rovers player as good as they could or were they well below par? If you have any sanity and decide to accept that it was the latter then yes…they did bottle it.