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Thread: Bray and Cabo to merge?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    So this would answer the 'what's in it for Bray' question, now that they don't have the St Josephs' link any more.
    Probably less hassle to link up with one of a multitude of decent schoolboy clubs in the south Dublin catchment area who will have less control over first team operations than Cabinteely unless there is first team cash coming in from the Cabinteely side

    One of Cabinteely's problems in the LOI is that they have blooded too way many of their schoolboy products who are nowhere near ready for senior football into the LOI team going through 30-40 players most seasons, I would be confident Cabinteely would require significant representation of their own players in a merged squad no matter what division Bray end up in
    The Leinster Senior League needs a strong Bohemians

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    Seems to have some momentum behind the scenes but cant really see it being particularly popular. GAA have made huge inroads into South Co Dublin in the last 15 - 20 years and are hoovering up kids and parents into clubs. When I played football years ago in the LSL we nearly played a team from the borough (Dun Laoghire) every 2nd week there was that many. A lot of them have folded or merged. Football is losing its grip on schoolboys and girls.

    Be a shame to lose the Bray Wanderers name but club has been close to extinction on a few occasions anyway.
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    Link to petition to try and stop the merger
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    Quote Originally Posted by centre mid View Post
    Seems to have some momentum behind the scenes but cant really see it being particularly popular. GAA have made huge inroads into South Co Dublin in the last 15 - 20 years and are hoovering up kids and parents into clubs. When I played football years ago in the LSL we nearly played a team from the borough (Dun Laoghire) every 2nd week there was that many. A lot of them have folded or merged. Football is losing its grip on schoolboys and girls.

    Be a shame to lose the Bray Wanderers name but club has been close to extinction on a few occasions anyway.
    Ouyt of curiosity, how many of outside of Bray support Bray? Was there ever a move to change the name to Wicklow Wanderers or just Wanderers?

    I know Bray are an iconic institution, in LOI terms, but I think with some clubs the name leads to people having no association with an area. If Bray was called Wicklow would you get more buy in from Greystones etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David BOHie View Post
    Ouyt of curiosity, how many of outside of Bray support Bray? Was there ever a move to change the name to Wicklow Wanderers or just Wanderers?

    I know Bray are an iconic institution, in LOI terms, but I think with some clubs the name leads to people having no association with an area. If Bray was called Wicklow would you get more buy in from Greystones etc.
    As a primarily urban sport, football doesn't really do broad geographical names. Sligo Rovers get supporters from around their county, as well as Leitrim, Roscommon and even North Mayo as well - despite their name. Derry City get supporters from Tyrone and Donegal. Finn Harps from across Donegal, and a few from Tyrone too. Drogheda from Meath. Etc etc Meanwhile Kildare County had virtually no supporters from anywhere, despite their generic name.

    Names do little or nothing to increase support for a football club. It's long years of hard work in the community building up intergenerational support that makes the big difference. That and winning stuff. There is no name-shaped magic bullet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David BOHie View Post
    Ouyt of curiosity, how many of outside of Bray support Bray? Was there ever a move to change the name to Wicklow Wanderers or just Wanderers?

    I know Bray are an iconic institution, in LOI terms, but I think with some clubs the name leads to people having no association with an area. If Bray was called Wicklow would you get more buy in from Greystones etc.
    Greystones and most of the county isn't a thriving football hotspot. Then you add Bray being more a Dublin commuter belt town at the most north tip of the county with limited public transport links to the rest of the county I'd be struggling to see how a name change from Bray to Wicklow Wanderers would see any increase in support from the rest of the county
    The Leinster Senior League needs a strong Bohemians

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    And the east/west divide in Wicklow of course. If you're anywhere in West Wicklow, Shamrock Rovers are probably going to be closer. To get from east to west, you have to go over either the Sally Gap or the Wicklow Gap
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 09/11/2021 at 7:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    As a primarily urban sport, football doesn't really do broad geographical names. Sligo Rovers get supporters from around their county, as well as Leitrim, Roscommon and even North Mayo as well - despite their name. Derry City get supporters from Tyrone and Donegal. Finn Harps from across Donegal, and a few from Tyrone too. Drogheda from Meath. Etc etc Meanwhile Kildare County had virtually no supporters from anywhere, despite their generic name.

    Names do little or nothing to increase support for a football club. It's long years of hard work in the community building up intergenerational support that makes the big difference. That and winning stuff. There is no name-shaped magic bullet.
    I must disagree with that. I think the Dublin clubs' non-descript names really help them get support outside of their locality. I'm a southsider and support Bohs. If they were called Phibsboro I probably wouldn't. I know a lot of Bohs support extends from Ashbourne to Swords too. I know Rovers have supporters clubs in a lot of east Leinster etc. I'm not sure they'd be as popular if they were called Ringsend or Tallaght.

    Greystones also has Greystones UTD who compete at a reasonably high level in the LSL (third tier I think) and they have pretty good facilities. I wouldn't discount them altogether. The Kildare comparison doesn't really stand up either if you were to flesh it out. Kildare County were just created out of thin air by members of Newbridge Town. Bray do have a lot of history, and with the right marketing could become really well supported across Wicklow.

    Now I accept Bray aren't my club and I wouldn't be in favour of renaming Bohs but it was just a question I said I'd ask initially.

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    Dublin City didn't exactly thrive and they literally adopted the name to try and create a broader appeal. Then again being called Home Farm wasn't packing the terraces either.

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    The only benefit I can see from a merger is the potentially larger commercial income that could be leveraged from a dublin south base, I think that's more hope than fact based though

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    Just reading the proposal to have Bray/Cabo one year and Cabo/Bray the next of whichever order and already there is a sense of potential problems - like one of those comedic bits on TV where x name comes first matters. Just pick a name and be done with it. Cavan/Monaghan dont need to rotate the name. Maybe its to appease fans short term but its pretty superficial. Its has a whiff of the old St Patrick's Athletic including St Francis F.C/Dublin Saints messing. I suppose I can understand Bray fans with the greater LoI pedigree feeling their name should stick but it could be a positive merger. Not as if its trying to merge North Korea with anyone. Wanderers United would be grand!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    And the east/west divide in Wicklow of course. If you're anywhere in West Wicklow, Shamrock Rovers are probably going to be closer. To get from east to west, you have to go over either the Sally Gap or the Wicklow Gap
    There aren't any major population centres in west Wicklow, are there? Blessington is the biggest, and it's a big village.
    It's funny how you can't spread carcinogens in an office by smoking, but you can cough and cough and cough.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Well true. There's a few other places - Baltinglass, Tinahely and so on - but yeah, 90% of Wicklow is on the east coast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David BOHie View Post
    I must disagree with that. I think the Dublin clubs' non-descript names really help them get support outside of their locality. I'm a southsider and support Bohs. If they were called Phibsboro I probably wouldn't. I know a lot of Bohs support extends from Ashbourne to Swords too. I know Rovers have supporters clubs in a lot of east Leinster etc. I'm not sure they'd be as popular if they were called Ringsend or Tallaght.
    You've just described a phenomena that is common in capital cities of having football teams that are not named after places/neighbourhoods e.g. Linfield, Shamrock Rovers, Hibernians, Arsenal (I know the historical Woolwich bit from donkeys ago), Club America, Cruz Azul. None of the 4 main clubs in Belfast are named after areas, for example, and it's the same with the 4 senior Dublin clubs (UCD is named after an institution, not an area). It's just one of those things often in capital cities. It's pretty rare beyond capitals - what clubs outside of Dublin or Belfast are not named after a place ? Finn Harps and Glenavon are the only ones I can think of.

    It's probably to do with the fact that georgraphical areas in cities are quite physically small and people can be very parochial about them. As you've just confirmed yourself there re your comments re not supporting Bohs if they'd been called Phibsboro.
    Last edited by EatYerGreens; 10/11/2021 at 1:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    You've just described a phenomena that is common in capital cities of having football teams that are not named after places/neighbourhoods e.g. Linfield, Shamrock Rovers, Hibernians, Arsenal (I know the historical Woolwich bit from donkeys ago), Club America, Cruz Azul. None of the 4 main clubs in Belfast are named after areas, for example, and it's the same with the 4 senior Dublin clubs (UCD is named after an institution, not an area). It's just one of those things often in capital cities. It's pretty rare beyond capitals - what clubs outside of Dublin or Belfast are not named after a place ? Finn Harps and Glenavon are the only ones I can think of.

    It's probably to do with the fact that georgraphical areas in cities are quite physically small and people can be very parochial about them. As you've just confirmed yourself there re your comments re not supporting Bohs if they'd been called Phibsboro.
    Treaty are the other, though thats due to a strange set of circumstances. Fordsons in Cork once upon a time named after the Ford Factory. Are Finn Harps named for the Finn Valley? Is that a real thing or am I imagining it? I googled it and there seem to be a lot of things named Finn Valley but in the 30 seconds I took to look I couldn't see any specifics about it as a geographic name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post
    Treaty are the other, though thats due to a strange set of circumstances. Fordsons in Cork once upon a time named after the Ford Factory. Are Finn Harps named for the Finn Valley? Is that a real thing or am I imagining it? I googled it and there seem to be a lot of things named Finn Valley but in the 30 seconds I took to look I couldn't see any specifics about it as a geographic name.
    Named after the River Finn that runs through Ballybofey and behind the ground
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    Harps are named after the River Finn and the Finn Valley is very much a thing,I’d always see it as the area from Lifford to Ballybofey but it’s not exactly set in stone …
    Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joey B View Post
    Harps are named after the River Finn and the Finn Valley is very much a thing,I’d always see it as the area from Lifford to Ballybofey but it’s not exactly set in stone …
    It's probably more set in water tbh

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    You've just described a phenomena that is common in capital cities of having football teams that are not named after places/neighbourhoods e.g. Linfield, Shamrock Rovers, Hibernians, Arsenal (I know the historical Woolwich bit from donkeys ago), Club America, Cruz Azul. None of the 4 main clubs in Belfast are named after areas, for example, and it's the same with the 4 senior Dublin clubs (UCD is named after an institution, not an area). It's just one of those things often in capital cities. It's pretty rare beyond capitals - what clubs outside of Dublin or Belfast are not named after a place ? Finn Harps and Glenavon are the only ones I can think of.

    It's probably to do with the fact that georgraphical areas in cities are quite physically small and people can be very parochial about them. As you've just confirmed yourself there re your comments re not supporting Bohs if they'd been called Phibsboro.

    I'm not sure about that. There's a fair few I found with only a few seconds google. Juventus, Atalanta, Real Sociedad, Osasuna - I could name a lot more too. Then on the flip side you have Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Fulham etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David BOHie View Post
    I'm not sure about that. There's a fair few I found with only a few seconds google. Juventus, Atalanta, Real Sociedad, Osasuna - I could name a lot more too. Then on the flip side you have Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Fulham etc.
    The highest ranking London club that doesn't appear to be named for their original neighbourhood is Corinthian-Casuals in the seventh tier. They came about after the merging of two teams, Corinthians and Casuals, neither of which was named for a georgraphic area as far as I can tell.

    There are a few other clubs who may not appear to be named for a place but in each case there was a physical location associated.
    Arsenal were originally Dial Square FC, which is a location in Woolwich. They changed their name to Royal Arsenal shortly after, and thats a building in the same area. They later became Woolwich Arsenal, and simply dropped the Woolwich part when they moved to North London. So their name is based on geography, they just moved away from the thing they were named for.
    Millwall is an area on the Isle of Dogs.
    Queens Park is a physical park.
    Crystal Palace is/was an exhibition hall with some dodgy looking dinosaurs.

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