Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II

[joey B]

It's more likely they're walking from the shambles that is the Ulster Senior League to prepare for 2024.

Is the USL on the way out Nigel? Seen Jazza McLaughlin’s article the last day and he doesn’t sound confident….

[nigel-harps1954]

Is the USL on the way out Nigel? Seen Jazza McLaughlin’s article the last day and he doesn’t sound confident….

Can't really see the Donegal League and Inishowen Leagues working together to create a top tier Intermediate Division between them as he suggests doing. Otherwise nobody wants to enter the USL while the existing clubs in there can afford to pay their players.

[culloty82]

Should Monaghan be part of the youth leagues if they are preparing for a return? We should be getting to a stage where any potential newcomer are backing up their application with youth teams integrated into the underage league structure.

Would imagine many of their players would be currently involved with the Cavan-Monaghan squad, so going it alone wouldn't be much of a wrench or a culture shock.

[joey B]

Can't really see the Donegal League and Inishowen Leagues working together to create a top tier Intermediate Division between them as he suggests doing. Otherwise nobody wants to enter the USL while the existing clubs in there can afford to pay their players.

3 different entities in 1 county pulling in different directions,a good metaphor for football this country….

[legendz]

The Premier Division had 12 teams for many years, with 10 in the First Division. There was a switch for a few years with 10 in the Premier and 12 in the First.
Cork, Galway and Waterford would make a case for the Premier expanding to 12, if new clubs can make the step up to the First Division.
5 step expansion route for the league:
1) PD 10, FD 10
2) PD 10, FD 11
3) PD 10, FD 12
4) PD 12, FD 11
5) PD 12, FD 12

[EatYerGreens]

The Premier Division had 12 teams for many years, with 10 in the First Division. There was a switch for a few years with 10 in the Premier and 12 in the First.
Cork, Galway and Waterford would make a case for the Premier expanding to 12, if new clubs can make the step up to the First Division.
5 step expansion route for the league:
1) PD 10, FD 10
2) PD 10, FD 11
3) PD 10, FD 12
4) PD 12, FD 11
5) PD 12, FD 12

I'm personally in favour of a 12 team PD. But there aren't 3 clubs looking to join the FD currently - just one. And there doesn't seem to be much of a queue forming behind Kerry either.

Realistically we're stuck withb 10 / 10 until the Third Division arises (assuming it does) and acts as a conduit for future potential expansion of the top tier(s).

[sbgawa]

The problem with a 12 team division is you end up with 33 games instead of 36........ 15 or 16 home matches instead of 18 and 3 matches against your closest rivals (which tends to generate the biggest crowds) instead of the current 4.
Admittedly you could re arrange the league with a top half bottom half split etc etc to ensure some of the above but i favour the 10 myself.
Particularly as it means there are very few meaningless matches with 1 to 4 for the European places it normally means at least 6 teams dreaming of qualifying and 2 or 3 trying to avoid relegation/relegation play offs
Maybe when the third division comes in and there is a big overall shake up things might change.

[culloty82]

An interesting aspect of the current 10/9 split is that the concentration of teams, combined with the longer season, has resulted in multiple Dublin derbies in the Premier, along with many Munster rivalries in the First, even if Cork's overdue return will affect that somewhat (let no Kerry chickens be counted yet!).

[Nesta99]

An interesting aspect of the current 10/9 split is that the concentration of teams, combined with the longer season, has resulted in multiple Dublin derbies in the Premier, along with many Munster rivalries in the First, even if Cork's overdue return will affect that somewhat (let no Kerry chickens be counted yet!).

Sure these boyos would pull a few strokes!

[legendz]

I'm personally in favour of a 12 team PD. But there aren't 3 clubs looking to join the FD currently - just one. And there doesn't seem to be much of a queue forming behind Kerry either.

Realistically we're stuck withb 10 / 10 until the Third Division arises (assuming it does) and acts as a conduit for future potential expansion of the top tier(s).

Agreed. PD of 12 teams and FD of 12 teams is a few years away from being an option. Kildare, Mayo, Carlow Kilkenny and Cavan Monaghan, Monaghan United really as advised by the Harps correspondent, can follow Kerry FC's progress.
If there's a reluctance by LoI clubs to field teams in a third tier, expansion of the LoI from 20 to 24 should be an option, if viable.

The problem with a 12 team division is you end up with 33 games instead of 36........ 15 or 16 home matches instead of 18 and 3 matches against your closest rivals (which tends to generate the biggest crowds) instead of the current 4.
Admittedly you could re arrange the league with a top half bottom half split etc etc to ensure some of the above but i favour the 10 myself.
Particularly as it means there are very few meaningless matches with 1 to 4 for the European places it normally means at least 6 teams dreaming of qualifying and 2 or 3 trying to avoid relegation/relegation play offs
Maybe when the third division comes in and there is a big overall shake up things might change.

33 is not ideal but sometimes we have to cut out cloth with what's available.
Usually with 33 games, they reverse the fixtures in the following year so that it balances out over a 2 year cycle.
A variant is that the first series of 11 matches is determined by the league placings of the previous year. The top 6 can start the season with 6/11 home games. The remaining 6 teams with 5/11 home games. Series 2 & 3 then can the regular home and away format over 22 games.
Going from 36 to 33 games doesn't affect weekend fixtures. It reduces the midweek games.

[Shinkicker]

The problem with a 12 team division is you end up with 33 games instead of 36........ 15 or 16 home matches instead of 18 and 3 matches against your closest rivals (which tends to generate the biggest crowds) instead of the current 4.
Admittedly you could re arrange the league with a top half bottom half split etc etc to ensure some of the above but i favour the 10 myself.
Particularly as it means there are very few meaningless matches with 1 to 4 for the European places it normally means at least 6 teams dreaming of qualifying and 2 or 3 trying to avoid relegation/relegation play offs
Maybe when the third division comes in and there is a big overall shake up things might change.

I like the current system play each other 4 times. If they do eventually get up to 12 teams and play each other 3 times and it would be a good time to bring back the league Cup. I dont like the idea of splitting leagues, teams are in that league to play teams of all abilities and take their chance.

[legendz]

I like the current system play each other 4 times. If they do eventually get up to 12 teams and play each other 3 times and it would be a good time to bring back the league Cup. I dont like the idea of splitting leagues, teams are in that league to play teams of all abilities and take their chance.

The European competitions are going to use a so-called Swiss model in the next 3 year cycle of never ending format changes. In the CL and EL, there will a 36 team group. All teams will play 8 games, 2 teams from 4 ranking levels.
The ECL will be a 36 team group with 6 matches each, 1 team from 6 ranking levels.
If a 10 team First Division wanted to maintain 32 games, the first series of games games could use the Swiss model format for the first 5 games of the season, playing 1 team from 5 ranking levels. Followed by 3 series of 9 games each, it would complete a 32 match season.
This is not a format that will be adopted any time soon, if ever. Just an example of a different approach to the split model. No divisive split at the end. Start the season playing an equal number of teams from each ranking level. It's about as fair as you'll get when 27 games for 10 teams is too short and 36 games for 10 teams might be too much.

[Philosophizer]

https://westernpeople.ie/2022/08/18/...of-facilities/

I wonder if this is an indicator of some kind of move for Westport.... If Westport are not trying to move to LOI, but another Mayo team is, this looks like a misuse of public money.

This grant for the new facilities in Westport is also good news for Sligo Rovers, who announced an official partnership with Westport a few months ago - https://www.westportunited.com/articles/65842

[legendz]

Cork, Waterford and Galway should have the resources to become established in the Premier Division. That will have Drogheda and Shelbourne looking over their shoulders. Expanding the LoI from 19 to 24, if possible, in two divisions of 12 might suit many clubs instead of a third tier.

[culloty82]

Interesting update from Carlow-Kilkenny, who shall henceforth be known as "CK United" - are they getting prepared for a senior application for 2024?

[Martinho II]

Interesting update from Carlow-Kilkenny, who shall henceforth be known as "CK United" - are they getting prepared for a senior application for 2024?

Would love to see a team from that part of the country again. I imagine it would be based in Buckley Park. Miss going to matches that part of the country. I havent being up there since 2005 when Kilkenny City knocked us out of the FAI cup.

[EatYerGreens]

CK United would be a terrible name for an LOI club - so from that point alone I would be surprised if it was a move down that route.

They also state that their ambition is to have sustainable first team football - which being in the LOI First Division would most probably be the antithesis of

[NeverFeltBetter]

The jokes write themselves there.

[2 Year Contract]

Yeah CK United FC is a poor name for a club, should’ve gone with Football Union of Carlow and Kilkenny which could obviously be abbreviated too if they feel it’s too long

[EatYerGreens]

Yeah CK United FC is a poor name for a club, should’ve gone with Football Union of Carlow and Kilkenny which could obviously be abbreviated too if they feel it’s too long

'Clubs Of Carlow Kilkenny' is the winning name. Who wouldn't want to call themselves a C.O.C.K. fan ?