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Thread: Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II

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    I think in Dublin it’s very difficult to attract fans to a brand new club. I think if you asked non LOI fans from Swords why they don’t support a team in the league, the main reason would be “that league is muck” etc. rather than “Bohs/Shels are too far away to go to every second Friday” and if that’s the attitude then supporting a brand new club at the very bottom of the lowest tier in the LOI is not going to entice very many to get on board. Even with Sporting Fingal’s rapid rise to the premier division/cup win/europe, their crowds were always shocking as there seemed to be an attitude of supporting them is embarrassing due to the lack of history (years in existence as opposed to trophies).

    Compare that to Kerry, where there seemed to be a genuine appetite for LOI football in the county but also crucially the much more legitimate issue of no LOI side anywhere even relatively close. Hence the popularity of the club in year 1 despite losing nearly every week and playing in a poor ground
    Paaatrick's Agletic

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract View Post
    I think in Dublin it’s very difficult to attract fans to a brand new club. I think if you asked non LOI fans from Swords why they don’t support a team in the league, the main reason would be “that league is muck” etc.
    The youth leagues are a different dynamic. It is not easy to get into a local youth team. There is an awareness of the competitive level of LoI youth teams. If a club has 4 youth teams, that's 90 players and families with a connection with the club already.
    On the mooted third tier, participation in the youth leagues should be a requirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cláirseach View Post
    I'm not a Rovers fans but I was quite interested in the seconds. My take is that it certainly worked for player development, but ultimately probably not much for Rovers themselves.
    It would have over time. It wasn't around long enough unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    The youth leagues are a different dynamic. It is not easy to get into a local youth team. There is an awareness of the competitive level of LoI youth teams. If a club has 4 youth teams, that's 90 players and families with a connection with the club already.
    On the mooted third tier, participation in the youth leagues should be a requirement.
    I agree with what you're saying there Legendz and it's now made me think of something else:

    As much as I feel the national youth leagues have been brilliant for improving the LOI clubs relationship with their communities, I think it's telling that only regions have been allowed to enter underage teams. St. Kevin's would have entered an underage team but had to partner with Bohs due to the stipulation that only LOI teams could enter initially.

    My guess is that St. Kevin's focus on youth meant that they had no interest in eventually becoming a fully fledged LOI team, and fair enough, but is there a danger that if you open it up to clubs (and not just regions) that some will sit at that underage level with no intention of ever fielding a senior team in the Premier Division?

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfman View Post
    My guess is that St. Kevin's focus on youth meant that they had no interest in eventually becoming a fully fledged LOI team, and fair enough, but is there a danger that if you open it up to clubs (and not just regions) that some will sit at that underage level with no intention of ever fielding a senior team in the Premier Division?
    My own opinion is that the youth leagues should only be accepting clubs from non LoI areas unless there is a strategic benefit for additional youth teams. While Kerry were able to join the youth leagues as Kerry League, the FAI now require a Mayo League for example to form a club e.g. Mayo FC.
    Mayo FC, CK and Kildare graduating from the U19 leagues to a third tier should be a natural progression. It's not a million miles away from being a possibility. As mentioned before, I think they'll need at least 5 second LoI teams for a national third tier to get off the ground.

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    Is there any interest from either Peamount or DLR Waves to enter the men's LOI?
    If both were to join Mayo, CK, Kildare and possibly Meath and Cavan-Monaghan, that would be the makings of a division

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    DLR Waves is effectively the Women's team of UCD. They play in the Bowl and were formed from a merger of UCD and a Dún Laoghaire team I think

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Would it be strategic for the Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and Fingal regions to enter teams in the youth leagues? With a focus on youth, they could focus on getting support from their local county councils for that reason.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    They already do. That's effectively the youth teams of UCD you're describing

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    They already do. That's effectively the youth teams of UCD you're describing
    I know. Does UCD reduce the likelihood of a DLR LoI club?

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    Not really - UCD is a DLR LoI club.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Not really - UCD is a DLR LoI club.
    If UL had entered the LoI instead of Treaty, I'm trying to imagine Limerick getting behind a third level institution instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    If UL had entered the LoI instead of Treaty, I'm trying to imagine Limerick getting behind a third level institution instead.
    Cabinteely didn't exactly pull up any trees.
    https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.

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    Couple of quick clarifications re posts above:

    -Peamount united have a mens LSL team already. Not just a women's club.
    -DLR Waves are independent from UCD. The DLR-UCD merger was only active 2014-2018, with DLR Waves being an independent club before and afterwards. The Wikipedia page has a decent club history. They have played at Jackson Park as well as the Bowl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckett View Post
    Is there any interest from either Peamount or DLR Waves to enter the men's LOI?
    If both were to join Mayo, CK, Kildare and possibly Meath and Cavan-Monaghan, that would be the makings of a division
    In fairnness, the last thing the LOI needs is more Dublin teams. Maybe someone with a strong identity like Ballymun at Tier 3 would fly, but not in the top 2 tiers proper (though I appreciate that P&R means you could well see other clubs get there).

    With attendances at the Dublin clubs bar UCD increaisdng a lot in recent years, it will become increasingly difficult for any new Dublin LOI teams to carve out ennough of a niche to sustain themselves in the top 2 tiers (unless they go down the route of a sugar daddy, which would just end up in boom and bust).

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    In fairnness, the last thing the LOI needs is more Dublin teams. Maybe someone with a strong identity like Ballymun at Tier 3 would fly, but not in the top 2 tiers proper (though I appreciate that P&R means you could well see other clubs get there).

    With attendances at the Dublin clubs bar UCD increaisdng a lot in recent years, it will become increasingly difficult for any new Dublin LOI teams to carve out ennough of a niche to sustain themselves in the top 2 tiers (unless they go down the route of a sugar daddy, which would just end up in boom and bust).
    Agree about Dublin and even places like Ballymun already have a decent amount of support for Bohs. Pie in the sky stuff I know but I think Kilkenny would be a great city to have and LOI club in again but it would need to really work within the community to ensure sustainability. Outside of that a real darkhorse would be somewhere like Portlaois. Good public transport links with train and bus, prison to lock up any hooligans and from what I remember it has a growing population. But if Kilkenny is pie in the sky then Portlaois is a triple decker wedding cake in the sky type thing.

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    Fared very respectably in the FAI Intermediate and Senior Cups last year, though scaling up to the levels needed to field teams at all academy levels would be quite another matter of course. As has been said before, would make most sense for CK United to be based in Buckley Park, but seem to be very much a Carlow-dominated outfit.

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    Seasoned Pro EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Have I got this right?

    The FAI are looking to align the under-age football season with Senior football round a summer schedule, at least partly to provide a "feeder pool" of new clubs to the projected new Third Tier?

    Are there any such plans for adult Junior/Intermediate football? Or are they being left to continue playing winter football, thereby effectively cutting off any progression from there to the Senior game?

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    No, the aim is for all leagues, including junior and intermediate, to switch to the calendar year, but they're already getting negative pushback:

    https://archive.is/svDIu

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  22. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by culloty82 View Post
    Fared very respectably in the FAI Intermediate and Senior Cups last year, though scaling up to the levels needed to field teams at all academy levels would be quite another matter of course. As has been said before, would make most sense for CK United to be based in Buckley Park, but seem to be very much a Carlow-dominated outfit.
    Maybe I'm the only person, but I just don't see how CK United will ever attract much support ? It's a rubbish name and a disparate area to be trying to get people to identify with. I may well be proven wronng, but I just can't see a club of that name and purpose going anywhere.

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