QuoteIt won't ever succeed in it's current guise. A proper Carlow FC or Kilkenny FC might work, but this CK United amalgamation, planning to play in the middle of nowhere, is destined to fail.Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Ah right. From the link in Nigel's post #1065, I took "senior" to mean the LOI PD and FD, rather than actually meaning Adult football:
"ALL leagues at senior and underage level in Ireland will be aligned to the same calendar year schedule etc"
It won't ever succeed in it's current guise. A proper Carlow FC or Kilkenny FC might work, but this CK United amalgamation, planning to play in the middle of nowhere, is destined to fail.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Are LoI clubs to exist within county boundaries only? CK shouldn't fail as long as their youth teams are giving the best players in Carlow and Kilkenny an opportunity to play at a higher level.
In the case of new clubs aiming to be created outside of the major urban areas, pretty much yeah. You can't ignore the innate identification with county in Irish society, which is a negative at times, in that there are plenty of people who would never dream of supporting a football team outside of their county even if they were really just down the figurative road, but also a positive. A team that could claim to be representing a singular county could well have greater engagement than one that is trying to represent two. That's pretty much what Kerry FC is trying to do it seems, and I doubt they would be doing better if they were trying to be KL or KC.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Kerry has the population. There are counties in GAA who should amalgamate. New LoI clubs don't have to restrict themselves to county boundaries. If professional status is to be attainable for CK, I think they've taken the right approach. There has been a Cavan Monaghan partnership. Laois & Offaly might be another. Carlow Kilkenny and Cavan Monaghan are political constituencies. Laois Offaly is another. It's not just CK who have seen the need for an amalgamation.
GAA amalgamation, on a senior level anyway, is something I would deem very unlikely to ever happen. I know that there are cases of hurling clubs in football-heavy counties playing in another county's structures and the like, but a full on "Carlow/Kilkenny" senior football team would end up being treated like a scandal by the perpetually outraged GAA community, not a practical solution.
CK could certainly be a good acid test, but my point is that something like Kilkenny FC and Carlow FC might well have greater engagement from their respective areas than CK has trying to attract from both. It might be worth considering some kind of non-geographical branding in the future for them and any such entities if they are trying to move beyond typical Irish parochialism.
I don't think there being political constituencies that consist of two counties is really a point in favour, because there are endless complaints about such boundaries from TD's, councillors and parts of the electorate, and in such places, where parties run more than one candidate, they tend to make sure it's one from one county and one from another to maximise appeal. I'm just thinking of the negative commentary on the proposed Wicklow/Wexford constituency, as an example: https://www.independent.ie/regionals...746346022.html
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Carlow and Kilkenny have shared local media. Some counties will be more suited for an LoI club partnership than others. Westmeath possibly would suit an Athlone - Mullingar rivalry, East versus West.
It's not about county boundaries. It's about the fact they've a terrible name that will appeal to few people, and they're also planning to play their matches in the worng place.
I think the whole coounty loyalty thing in sporrt is often over-blown i Ireland, and that people are capable of thinking beyond it in sports other than GAA .
There are a lot of LOI fans who support teams in a different county : Meath supporters for Drogheda and Bohs ; Kildare fans fof Rovers and Pats ; Leitrim, Mayo and Roscommon support for Sligo ; Tyrone support for Harps ; Donegal supprt for Derry etc etc
Also - when you have Irish people in huge numbers supporting 'their' team in a completely different country, supporting one down the road from them is hardly a big deal even if they are in a different county.
Irsih people are now more mobile within the country than at any time in history (at least since the Famine anyway), and 10% of the population wasn't born here so has no innate sense of county identitiy either. Outside of GAA and a few jokes in the pub, I genuinely think people are increasingly less belligerent about country identity and it stopping who they could back in oither sports.
Last edited by EatYerGreens; 13/02/2024 at 12:18 PM.
On Ck United was it that hard to base it in one of the 2 large towns of nearly 30k each? One of them has a large University campus and the other has a history of LOI football,seems like they’re playing from behind from the start with the choice of home ground….
What name do you want them to have? CK Leinster? They had their reasons for moving away from "Carlow Kilkenny FC".
I think they should have looked at going the way Treaty did. Name it after something significant from the region. Not necessarily a historical event but it could be that, a historical figure, geographical feature that is related to both like one of the 3 sisters. CK United just sounds like a knockoff underpants brand
In fairness, I wouldn't say that's been a great benefit to Treaty, anytime the name is discussed it's generally in negative terms, and there were rumours after the recent takeover that a change back to some form of "Limerick" was being actively considered. But it might make more sense for something like CK I suppose, where it isn't a weird way to differentiate yourself from a previous club.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Yeah so it didn't work for Treaty and i agree with them changing their name to Limerick United or whatever it may end up being but I think the reasoning behind the name was good and it gave a unique and novel name with a nod to the city. I think that's the approach that should be taken if they want the Cavan/Monaghan Carlow/Kildare amalgamations in the league. It's something American sports do well. 49ers named after the people who followed the gold rush to the city, Utah Jazz were originally from New Orleans and named after the music that originated from the city (franchising of the teams has obviously ruined this connection). There are plenty more as well. It would be a different way to tie the team to the area and get the local backing while still keeping the bigger catchment area
Cavan scroungers
The dodgers, based on the Cavan tradition of dodging rounds
Can't claim to be familiar with the situation in ROI, but other than your "10% percent" of the resident population born outside Ireland (actually 20% as per the 2022 Census), I'd say that that all sounds right.
And if it's worth anything by way of comparison, I'd say county affiliations have little or no impact on NI football either. (Unless it's Co. Glasgow, Co.Liverpool or Co.Manchester)
Which is why I don't get this fixation with expanding Senior football on County lines. Fair enough, Kerry have been successful so far, but it's still not yet certain that the seed has taken firm root, or could withstand eg relegation to the 3rd tier, or another couple of years of drought, points-wise. And even if they should succeed, might they not be an outlier?
Besides which, there aren't that many other candidate counties amongst the 26 which are not already served by LOI football, either internally or neighbouring counties - enough to sustain a genuine 3rd tier in a pyramid stretching from Junior, through Intermediate, up to Senior level?
I know the very real barriers to existing Intermediate clubs in reasonably-sized* towns to rise to Senior football have been widely discussed here in the past, but surely to goodness they should be able to offer greater opportunity for organic growth than a few made-up clubs which are just as likely to go the way of eg Kildare or Fingal before them, as thrive like it is hoped Kerry will.
* - I say "reasonably-sized", but would note that in the IL, Loughgall FC, operating from a village of fewer than 400 people, but founded in 1967 and heavily community-based, are doing ok in in the Premiership (7th out of 12, 31 points from 27 games, before crowds averaging 867 per match). Of course it won't last, but even when they eventually do go down, there are plenty of bigger clubs ready to take their place eg Bangor or Portadown.
CK absolutely have not taken the right approach. They haven't really publicly consulted anyone, have gone off on their own to move to Tullow, a town smaller than Ballybofey in the north of Carlow that's not along the train route, it's poorly supported by public transport, and it's just so far out of the way it's beyond a brutal choice of home patch.
Aside from that, it's hardly overly accessible to the people of Kilkenny either. There's any number of places between Carlow and Kilkenny in which they could have based themselves, got involved with all the junior clubs, linked up with the Carlow and Kilkenny leagues, and really grown something for everyone. Instead, they've done much of the opposite, and pretty much doomed themselves before they even start.
Amalgamation of areas is grand if it's done right. Cavan/Monaghan example was another really poor choice based off nothing other than "at least they done it". It was a dreadful experiment, and the only half decent player in the partnership, Monaghan United, quickly jumped ship.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
When has it been "done right"? (Genuine question)
Ballybofey and Stranorlar..
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
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