Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II

[pineapple stu]

The IL and Scottish League had teams knocking on the door seeking to get in.

Did they? The Highland/Lowland leagues in Scotland were happily separate for decades, just like the LSL/MSL here. A couple of clubs may have wanted to jump up - though there wasn't much interest when Rangers, Airdrie and Clydebank went bust - Gretna from the English leagues joined, and Rangers/Airdrie got their places back. That doesn't sound like clubs knocking on the door to get in, does it?

And in the case where we probably have less interest, you want to start a whole new - regionalised - third tier on an invitation basis, when no-one's interested and the problems Tralee had - changing season, dropping back to the bottom of the Kerry league, etc - are unaddressed?

That makes no sense, no matter how much you refer to a youth setup

[legendz]

And in the case where we probably have less interest, you want to start a whole new - regionalised - third tier on an invitation basis, when no-one's interested and the problems Tralee had - changing season, dropping back to the bottom of the Kerry league, etc - are unaddressed?

I can only see a Third Tier getting off the ground if at least 8 teams can join. CK United, Kildare and six LoI second teams. If less than six LoI teams are interested, the ingredients are not there.
If Monaghan United or Cavan Monaghan and Mayo progress, their potential participation in the Third Tier is a few more years away.

[EatYerGreens]

Did they? The Highland/Lowland leagues in Scotland were happily separate for decades, just like the LSL/MSL here. A couple of clubs may have wanted to jump up - though there wasn't much interest when Rangers, Airdrie and Clydebank went bust - Gretna from the English leagues joined, and Rangers/Airdrie got their places back. That doesn't sound like clubs knocking on the door to get in, does it?

And in the case where we probably have less interest, you want to start a whole new - regionalised - third tier on an invitation basis, when no-one's interested and the problems Tralee had - changing season, dropping back to the bottom of the Kerry league, etc - are unaddressed?

That makes no sense, no matter how much you refer to a youth setup

For the record - both Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic tried repeatedly to join the Irish League 20-30years ago. Donegal Celtic applied every year for over a decade. Both eventually had to resort to threatening legal action, with the backing of the NI Equality Commission. So there certainly were clubs knocking on the door of the Irish League anyway (albeit largely a 'protestant league for protestant clubs' both then and now).

Donegal forced to take legal route - Independent.ie

[pineapple stu]

I can only see a Third Tier getting off the ground if at least 8 teams can join. CK United, Kildare and six LoI second teams. If less than six LoI teams are interested, the ingredients are not there.

But nobody's interested - we know this because it was due to start this year, and there's nobody for it.

Yet you still think it's the best way forward?

[Buller]

But nobody's interested - we know this because it was due to start this year, and there's nobody for it.

Yet you still think it's the best way forward?

Surely any 3rd tier should be regionalised to minimise the travel expenses? Wonder is that the plan?

Very offputting to any prospective clubs to have to join a nationwide league with very modest fans/support baseline - I think its in the region of 100k a yr at a minimum to run a nationwide division side.

[pineapple stu]

That was the plan wasn't it? North and South?

I'd agree it should be regionalised for the reasons you say - but then you need twice as many teams.

All while we have regional leagues in Leinster and Munster anyway - which other countries are just clipping onto the pyramid...

[A N Mouse]

The point was quite simple, namely that after NigelHarps originally brought Strabane into the thread, I pointed out that the town has never been known for its football - fair enough, it's hardly compulsory. However I then went on to point out that the pyramid in NI now offers an opportunity for people in the town to put that right, and wished them Good Luck.

And that was it really, until EYG took exception.

I'll take that as meaning you can't answer it, then?

Meanwhile, pray elucidate how/where I used it to "defend" or "justify" anything else.

Less than Strabane(!), as it happens, but none of that's relevant to the introduction of a pyramid in Irish football, North or South.

Ah right. Because of one throwaway comment from me about Strabane, you are automatically ascribing some sort of poilitical/sectarian attitutde to me. Despite my also praising eg Newry, Sligo and Derry for being "proper footballing towns" [sic].

How ironic.


Thanks, I don't particularly need a history lesson, but if you need to vent, then let it all out.

Where did I say anything about any of that (eligibilty)?

For the record, my view is that so long as it is within the rules, a player shoiuld be entitled to play for whoever the hell he/she likes. And when it comes to club football. players from one side of the border in Ireland should be entitled to play on the other side, too, if that's what they want.

Which is why we have so many Southerners routinely playing in NI and v.v, without that being a problem for any of them. (Or me, for that matter).

Perhaps you might address that point to the NIFL's elected CEO, Cliftonville's Gerard Lawlor?

If nothing else, some of the spirit of the season from the man himself might rub off on you:



https://mobile.twitter.com/gerardlawlor75

I'm not ascribing anything to you. I'm pointing that asking the question as you have is problematic.

The most recent event I listed was in the last five years. And it was correct, but in the context of what went before, particularly the one less than ten years before at the start of pyramid a team was denied entry because they wanted to play in the same ground. It could be construed as sectarian.

So if it's ok to ask that question then surely it's also ok to ask 'given a hundred plus years of examples, why tf would a team from Strabane want to play in the top tier?'


Hint, I don't thinking either question deserves answering.

And if it's not being used to make a point then why give voice to it? It's writing off not one section of the community but an entire chunk of the map.


And for the record I'm a balanced individual, having a cup on each shoulder.

Without giving it much thought I can name three high profile Strabane men lined out for DCFC, I want to say two of them were capped. Sion, not the Swiss would surely be a known entity even in the big smoke? Which of the top of my head adds at least another high profile personality. And if we were to take the wider cricketing area, which you've seemingly already chosen to ignore, then you're well on your way to spiting your face.

[EalingGreen]

I'm not ascribing anything to you. I'm pointing that asking the question as you have is problematic.

The most recent event I listed was in the last five years. And it was correct, but in the context of what went before, particularly the one less than ten years before at the start of pyramid a team was denied entry because they wanted to play in the same ground. It could be construed as sectarian.

So if it's ok to ask that question then surely it's also ok to ask 'given a hundred plus years of examples, why tf would a team from Strabane want to play in the top tier?'


Hint, I don't thinking either question deserves answering.

And if it's not being used to make a point then why give voice to it? It's writing off not one section of the community but an entire chunk of the map.


And for the record I'm a balanced individual, having a cup on each shoulder.

Without giving it much thought I can name three high profile Strabane men lined out for DCFC, I want to say two of them were capped. Sion, not the Swiss would surely be a known entity even in the big smoke? Which of the top of my head adds at least another high profile personality. And if we were to take the wider cricketing area, which you've seemingly already chosen to ignore, then you're well on your way to spiting your face.

Nope, I tried Google Translate, Alexa and a big Thesaurua and they can't make any more sense of that than I can.

Happy New Year.

[culloty82]

That was the plan wasn't it? North and South?

I'd agree it should be regionalised for the reasons you say - but then you need twice as many teams.

All while we have regional leagues in Leinster and Munster anyway - which other countries are just clipping onto the pyramid...

Pretty much a chicken-and-egg situation - the very reason why clubs are reluctant currently to apply for the First Division is because of the gulf in licence requirements and football standards between the LoI and the existing regional leagues, yet because there are only a handful of teams interested in moving up, a tier to bridge that gap would need a number of reserve sides to make up the numbers. Of course, a few Rockmounts, Lucans etc could be added to the mix, but then that risks similar issues as occurred in Galway with Mervue and Salthill.

[timothydec77]

The League of Ireland is seen as a foolish adventure by the Msl and similar teams.

While Cork City and Cobh have gone bust . I have never heard of a Msl team going bust.

[GUFCghost]

That was the plan wasn't it? North and South?

I'd agree it should be regionalised for the reasons you say - but then you need twice as many teams.

All while we have regional leagues in Leinster and Munster anyway - which other countries are just clipping onto the pyramid...

That's the crux of the problem, they're not actually regional leagues. They both basically greater Cork/Dublin leagues.

We need to sort promotion and relegation between junior & intermediate as well as between intermediate and senior. But again, how is that going to happen when none of the clubs actually want it?

[legendz]

But nobody's interested - we know this because it was due to start this year, and there's nobody for it.

Yet you still think it's the best way forward?

CK United and Kildare are only reaching U19 level in 2023. I'm surprised 2024 is being spoken about for a Third Tier. I thought CK United and Kildare will be at U19 level for two years before seeking to progress to a Third Tier.
In the LoI then there is no indication of which clubs will enter a second team. Shamrock Rovers are the one clear standout. That leaves at least 5 more required. While a regionalised third tier might be preferable for some, getting at least 8 clubs on board will only suit a national league.
If enough LoI second teams are not coming on board, the First Division should be allowed to expand to 11 or 12 if new clubs can attain a First Division licence. The LoI is at a crossroads. Establish a Third Tier or expand the First Division as new clubs graduate from the youth leagues.

[Shinkicker]

For the record - both Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic tried repeatedly to join the Irish League 20-30years ago. Donegal Celtic applied every year for over a decade. Both eventually had to resort to threatening legal action, with the backing of the NI Equality Commission. So there certainly were clubs knocking on the door of the Irish League anyway (albeit largely a 'protestant league for protestant clubs' both then and now).

Donegal forced to take legal route - Independent.ie

This was back in the days of the old B division. To gain access you had to be voted in by the existing clubs in the B division. While the clubs in Belfast and surrounding area voted DC in it was several provincial clubs who blocked their acceptance for years. The decision should have been made by the IFA and not the clubs in the B division.

[pineapple stu]

That's the crux of the problem, they're not actually regional leagues. They both basically greater Cork/Dublin leagues.

True, yep

And how helpful can it be to regional sides to have the likes of the Wicklow/Meath/Kerry District Leagues?

Surely the competition in those can't be as good as if they were all merged into a greater Leinster/Munster structure?

[A N Mouse]

Nope, I tried Google Translate, Alexa and a big Thesaurua and they can't make any more sense of that than I can.

Happy New Year.

It would be a very generous person would look at the question as phrased, multiple times, and take away 'what are the footballing highlights of Strabane?'

Instead the extra words imply denigration and conflict, if not hostility, so more 'what they the **** have they done for us?'.

So despite your progressive attitudes and platitudes you've said the quiet part out loud. In the spirit of what you posted earlier you can begin the new year by holding your hand up and saying 'yep could have phrased that one better'. Or continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself you're not part of the problem.

[culloty82]

Limerick FC re-entering U15 and U17 leagues:

[sbgawa]

FFSwhat is the point?

[Shearer]

FFSwhat is the point?

It's POS being stuck for something to do.

Last year they were a disgrace and most of the players they had have either gone back to their former club or joined another loi club.
They'd usually get the players Treaty don't want but they've left it so late that the ones that are good enough have gone elsewhere.

They can't retain players. Most of the players that have gone in there in the past haven't lasted more than a season, some haven't even made it to the season's end. I know of close to a dozen players who played and won't return.

Just because they can submit teams doesn't mean they should. Nobody cares about them anymore, the time for them to pull the pin came ages ago.

[Longfordian]

That might just be the least professional looking LOI related statement ever. Which is some achievement. It reads like a phishing email.

[nigel-harps1954]

Limerick Foorball Club.