Or they call an EGM and have the decision stopped, those behind it removed etc etc. Because the FAI is ultimately run by a broad group of vested interests within the game, of which the LOI is only one small part.Originally Posted by David BOHie
The board now has majority independent control, if they wanted to push it through they could.
As regards clubs going off and joining other leagues elite clubs that you would want in a pyramid wont do that anyway as they want to have a chance at FAI cups , representative sides etc.
Also if the FAI withdraw supports from those leagues Refs ...Insurance etc, Government funding etc etc the Blazers will buckle...
Remember its the blazers that are the problem the players just want to play
I dont know a great deal about dysfuntion in European football either, but I do know that there are several (many?) Associations which could easily outdo the FAI for dodgy dealing.
Take Croatia, for example, where their fans disrupted a game at the 2016 Euro's in France, in an attempt to get the game abandoned:
WHY DID IT HAPPEN?
In the backdrop to Euro 2016, a large number of supporters had become alienated from the Croatian National team, some gave up on it completely. The reason stemmed from the corruption that involved the football federation’s vice-president Zdravko Mamic....
Read more at: https://www.foottheball.com/uefa-eur...protest-fight/
While Bulgarian football has been completely infiltrated, even taken over in places, by organised crime, eg:
"Alongside all the corruption, stuttering development of coaching methods and the suffering of youth football because of it, Bulgaria’s taken a deep dive into the football abyss, which is sad for any fan over here because it’s a football-crazy nation."
https://breakingthelines.com/histori...rrupted-farce/
While Greece could probably give lessons in dysfunction to both of them:
A scathing media report in Greece has alleged that football there is 'governed by people who have no limits'. It goes on to say: 'Laws do not exist, the Statute is being constantly violated, so do HFF (EPO) Regulations.'
'In the past 8 months, it has been proven beyond any doubt that the current HFF (EPO) Administration has no second thoughts when it comes to violating the Statute and HFF (EPO) Regulations and abuse its power, in order to serve specific interests of those who truly and unlawfully govern Greek football,' the report adds.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...metal-bar.html
While their Turkish neighbours aren't far behind:
https://www.declanhill.com/happening...ms-corruption/
Closer to home - and without the violence or corruption, I should add - the FA was for decades entirely unfit for purpose (some would argue it still is!). They were run by the FA Council, which had 90-odd Blazers, drawn eg from the Counties, the Armed Forces, Oxford & Cambridge Universities and even the Commonwealth! As such, they were entirely unreceptive to new ideas, while perpetually at daggers drawn with the Football League etc.
Anyhow, the FAs Executive eventually managed to wrest control, aided (and sometimes ordered) by the Sports Council and government ministers etc, who insisted on governance reform.
While even closer to home, the IFA was long stymied by a core of backwoodsmen on out Council, who were resistant eg to Sunday football, or funding the womens' game etc. But again, aided by a hard-balled CEO brought in from England(!), and pressure from the Sports Council and Stormont etc, they were forced to reform their corporate governance completely eg a brand new Board, half of whom were from outside football and representative of women, minorities and other groups etc.
Which is not to say that the IFA is now wonderful (certainly isn't lol), but change can happen, even if slowly and imperfectly. And with the FAI being entirely dependant on the Government to service their debt, now is surely the time for the Executive to get their act together and tell the Blazers that the party is over, and if they don't shift over and let the professionals take charge, then the whole show could go under.
Out of curiousity - how many of those involved the association being on the verge of bankruptcy, UEFA intervention, and the Association's Chief Executive facing criminal allegations/charges ?
Don't tell Pineaple Stu ! He'll be straight on the phone to UEFA alleging political interference
Sorry, but all that is decidedly small time compared with what goes on elsewhere, eg this report from January 2021:
A bullet for the president: gangs, corruption and murder in Bulgarian football
"One spring Monday morning, Lokomotiv Plovdiv president, Alexander Tasev, like most football bosses around Europe, sat in his expensive car about to head off to work. Seconds later he was shot dead by someone in a passing car, two bullets piercing his head.
Since that day in May 2007, at least 12 more football bosses have been killed in the Balkan country. Tasev was the third Lokomotiv president to be killed in just two years."
https://footballpink.net/2018-10-25-...rian-football/
FIFA only prohibits unwanted political interference/imstruction in football.Don't tell Pineaple Stu ! He'll be straight on the phone to UEFA alleging political interference
In other words, FIFA will not object so long as the Association in question accepts the intervention/instruction, even if that "acceptance" is only on pain of getting government funding cut off if it doesn't.
Which is precisely what I was trying to get Pineapple Stu to understand and accept (to no avail).
Nope - your original suggestion was that "This is where it's for the government to force the change that the FAI needs but can't itself implement". The very word "force" implies unwanted instruction, otherwise the FAI would just do it itself.
You then elaborated to bring in an external consultant's report with a convenient answer which the FAI, unable to implement because of internal politics, would then ask the Government to force it to implement - but didn't really look at how the FAI, blocked by factions who don't want to amend the league structure, would vote to adopt a report which makes that same recommendation. Or why the Government - who didn't act as Genesis was repeatedly unimplemented, would be interested over something as trivial as this. Or indeed, why all this is relevant in the first place given I've repeatedly noted I don't need to outline how exactly a change should be brought about to form the view that it's the right change, given it's effective throughout the continent.
Other than that though...
I think one of the reasons we don't have a pyramid is the GAA mindset that affects all Irish sport. Whilst the type of hardcore football fan that browses here might not be influenced by GAA, most Irish people certainly are. That's why we have clubs like Galway United, Treaty, Wexford, nearly any club outside of the garrison towns/ dublin & cork. Galway United isn't like a football club in England, it's a lot more like the county board. Local clubs in Galway don't want to compete with United, except for the obvious two, who were the subject of scorn from other Galway clubs. This is why clubs like Kerry FC and CK United are popping up. County board clubs I call 'em.
There's no concept of a link between junior and intermediate because of this GAA mindset. IMO that needs to change. Intermediate football needs to be totally redesigned and then linked to the LOI. I think it might be possible to revive the A-Championship with these new county board clubs and LOI reserve teams whilst reforming the intermediate leagues, and then simply link the two systems once it's all been put together.
Of course, the intermediate clubs need to want to change. If they don't, what's the point in forcing them? We might as well just surrender to the franchise model. As long as we have some kind of third tier for academy graduates who aren't ready for first team football
oh boy I'm not good at football forums
Ironically, the GAA has a fully integrated national pyramid, both in terms of the National Leagues in both codes, the five tiers in the hurling Championship, and the club championships in each county.
There is no one size fits all. Clubs are known to represent a city/town, part of a city/town or a region.
Tralee has a population of 25,000. Kerry has a population of 150,000. Kerry FC is the fruition of Kerry League building up through the youth leagues. A broader catchment area can potentially help a professional setup being more attainable. Waterford were building links with neighbouring regions a few years back.
For those interested in a pyramid, district leagues feeding into regional leagues is the piece to sort first. Noone has of yet given an example of a club knocking on the door to join the LoI. The A Championship had clubs e.g. Tralee, Tullamore, Castlebar and Fanad. The youth leagues have built up on Kerry, Mayo, Kildare, Cavan Monaghan and Carlow Kilkenny. Clubs were burnt by the A Championship experience.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
I think you have a point there. When I came here several years ago (from a country that has a pyramid), this whole concept of junior, intermediate and senior football without any links between them seemed very strange to me. Before I came here, I would have understood "junior football" as underage football, and any adult teams/leagues would be "senior".
Does this concept come from a GAA mindset? Could be. But I think it is very dysfunctional and needs a complete overhaul, and maybe a reform of the intermediate leagues would be a starting point. But how can you create an appetite for such a reform? Finding the carrot that you can offer to intermediate clubs and leagues could be key here.
There is junior/intermediate/senior in England as well btw, so probably the idea came from there, given the close connections between the two countries. I think intermediate starts around level 11. I'm not sure what the difference is - I think stuff like having to pay in to games is one that is required at senior level.
(They also have Sunday league which is separate again and is more social football)
A solution would be 3 or 4 district leagues having a shared higher tier. The district leagues would all have to be represented on the regional league committee.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
Just read a piece on Chinese football in The Athletic (paywall), analysing why they're so crap (won 1 of their 10 WCQ's for Qatar, only ever qualified in 2002, losing all 3 games v Brazil, Turkey & Costa Rica without scoring etc).
This comment from a Western observer caught my eye
“China is essentially a top down country. Everything comes down from the No 1 man at the top. When it comes to football, though, you need grassroots in place. You need that pyramid and to build up from the bottom. China doesn’t have that at all. The domestic game here was on a bad trajectory before COVID. Things have worsened since then.”
For President Xi read President Delaney?
P.S. I'm not seriously comparing football in ROI with that in ROC btw.
Different Sport, but All Ireland Rugby have a pretty big Pyramid of 5 Divsions of 10 teams all around Ireland.
https://www.irishrugby.ie/all-irelan...league-tables/
"Pretty big"?
OK, they have the four Provinces, but their club pyramid still only adds up to 50 clubs over five tiers/divisions, and that for the whole of Ireland.
Whereas the NI football pyramid alone has 7 tiers, 11 divisions and 140 clubs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northe..._league_system
Which also feeds into the provincial leagues - the round-robin winner is automatically promoted, and the runner-up goes into play-offs.
Jeeez... big compared to LOI
Are Limerick and Kerry clubs likely to be enthusiastic about joining the Munster "Cork" Senior League?
An Irish solution an Irish problem might require district leagues feeding into regional leagues.
West Munster: Limerick (2), Kerry and Clare.
East Munster: Waterford and Tipperary.
North Connacht/Ulster
South Connacht/West Leinster
North Leinster
South Leinster
6 regional leagues in parallel to the existing 2 senior leagues.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
Not qualified to comment on that myself, but t does sound plausible.
And if so, I'd say it needs to be rooted out, which effectively means starting again. Essentially, pyramids are built from the bottom up. And the building blocks are not regions, areas, counties or provinces etc, they're clubs.
More specifically clubs which have the vision, resources, organisation, finances, support and community links to enter a pyramid and progress through it (provided they're given the necessary encouragemnet and support from the FAI etc.). So that it shouldn't matter if 90% of the teams eg come from greater Dublin, say, they need to be viable.
You then organise them in local leagues, with pronotion and relegation etc, requiring minimum standards as regards sadium and facilities etc. These standards need to be progressivley upgraded as the leagues develop, so as to prepare (5-10 years?) for entry of the best teams (both on and off the pitch) to Intermediate Leagues. These would need to be organised on a regional basis, grouped round where the participating clubs are located.
And once Intermediate football is bedded in (another 5-10 years?), you complete the pyramid by linking it to the two Senior Divisions.
Then assuming this pyramid becomes established, in time this should encourage new clubs from outside traditional football heartlands to sign up and have a go.
Well thats what I think, anyhow!
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