Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II

[sbgawa]

Limerick FC didn't apply for a senior license.

Also don't have an u-19s team.

They would have entered an u-19s team if paud had any interest in going back in. He doesn't.

I could be wrong but i heard he accepted the underage as a compromise and his idea was to then move to senior.
Its mad anyway that he is prolonging this either way

[nr637]

The Third Tier idea should contain the best Junior clubs in the country, just take a look at the current FAI Junior Cup teams and you could choose a varied selection. Dublin have top teams like Crumlin or Sherriff, Limerick have several candidates like Pike Rovers and Fairview Rangers while many others such as Carrick Utd, St. Michaels, Westport United, and many more well run clubs to many to list here. If the FAI gave them assurances that promtion was not a priority and only necessary if the club were prepared for it.
I think there could be a good structure there for these clubs to explore. I don't think any current clubs especially the First Division clubs would fancy being relegated to a third division made up of these established junior clubs. It may also serve as an incentive for many of the progressive clubs around the conuntry.

[EalingGreen]

Something which occurs from another thread is the summer vs winter season debate.

From the FAI's 4 year plan:
The FAI are vowing to create a new, third tier league in the men’s League of Ireland by 2023... ... with the ultimate aim of instituting a "transformed football pyramid structure” in Irish football by 2025.

Seeing as the 3rd tier must inevitably follow a summer season, does this mean that those new clubs which are currently playing a winter season will have to withdraw from their existing league at the end of 2022 to join the new 3rd tier in Feb.2023? (Or simply not enter into a 2022/23 season at all i.e. accept a 6 month hiatus).

And if there is to be Promotion & Relegation between Intermediate and Senior football from 2025, will Intermediate football also be switching to summer football? Junior football as well?

Or am I missing something?

[pineapple stu]

No, that's one of the fundamental idiocies inherent in the football structure here, and one which has to be sorted one way or another if that goal is to be achieved. But that's a hell of a lot easier said than done, I think.

[EalingGreen]

No, that's one of the fundamental idiocies inherent in the football structure here, and one which has to be sorted one way or another if that goal is to be achieved. But that's a hell of a lot easier said than done, I think.

Hmmm.

I can't help wondering whether Jonathan Hill isn't thinking something on the following lines:
"I suppose I have to do something for the 'problem child' in my grand Four Year Plan. I know, I'll introduce a pyramid, first step a 3rd tier by 2023 - shouldn't be too hard to cobble together 10 teams somehow. Though introducing P&R between Internmediate/Winter football and Senior/Summer football will be a bit of a bugger. Ah well, just set a target date of 2025 and let some other gombeen deal with it when the time comes - I'll be well gone before then."

Or am I too cynical?

[Big Ears]

No, that's one of the fundamental idiocies inherent in the football structure here, and one which has to be sorted one way or another if that goal is to be achieved. But that's a hell of a lot easier said than done, I think.

It'd be a problem for any Junior/Intermediate clubs looking into move into a 3rd tier, but not so for any of the underage teams that currently aren't operating at Senior level.

IMO while a 3rd level should be open to Non League clubs to step up and join, the foundation of it should be the underage teams. Kerry, Mayo, Carlow-Kilkenny, Kildare, Cavan-Monaghan.
That's 5 teams with reasonable facilities and playing area and an immediate pool of players to bring through into adult football.
If there was a big push to link up with 3rd level institutions and offer scholarships for those good enough to play at the level, it might help to attract players towards a league which realistically will need to be amateur/expenses only.

I'm aware 3 clubs from (parts) of the area named above have failed in the past, but with lessons hopefully learned and costs kept to a minimum you'd hope functioning in this tier wouldn't be a problem.
You then need 3 more teams imo to create a league.

Blueball seem to hint that they've intentions on stepping up to the mark and while I'd prefer first teams only, you could fill out the league with Rovers II and one other reserve side (Derry's 2nd team ?).

If there was still concerns about a difference in quality between the tiers, you could enforce promotion by playoff only, with the top 3rd tier team (except reserve sides) squaring off with the bottom of the First Division, which should lessen the risk of a poor team being too far out of their depth the following year.
Normally there's a big difference between the bottom couple of sides in the First Division and the rest of the First Division anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the case.

I'm not saying it's perfect, and some teams that try it may fail. But I think it would be our best option in pursuing a 3rd tier.

[JC_GUFC]

Blueball seem to hint that they've intentions on stepping up to the mark and while I'd prefer first teams only, you could fill out the league with Rovers II and one other reserve side (Derry's 2nd team ?).

Interesting - allegedly the funding model behind their club is a bit murky! The fact that their ex-manager and one of their ex-players are now incarcerated may not be totally coincidental.

I think you're spot on with the types of clubs that will join the third tier, Maynooth University Town another likely participant along the 3rd level lines you've suggested. Add to that 4 or 5 Reserve teams. I wonder would the Harps & Derry Reserve teams leave the Ulster Senior League to join this. That would pretty much spell the end of the USL (I think it's only 6 teams as it is). That may be no bad thing - it would leave just two "Senior Leagues" in the country - the MSL which is only Cork sides and the LSL which looks like the model every regional league should follow. It has "Junior" Divisions feeding into "Intermediate" Divisions.

The problem with regional divisions is that they need to be probably balanced in terms of ability. This wasn't probably done the last time and made the North/West region much weaker allowing both Mervue and Salthill to achieve promotion without much difficulty.

[2 Year Contract]

Kerry announce their interest in joining the league at senior level next season. This article mentions them joining the First Division but was it not 2023 that was mentioned regarding the third tier being set up?

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...eland-27128914

[Burnsie]

Scanlon was unconvincing about the third tier when he was interviewed on LOI Central earlier in the year, and I understand that, as of a few weeks ago, the Leinster Senior League (who would presumably be at least a potential source for entrant clubs) hadn't been contacted about it. No chance it happens in 2023 in my view.

[Glen Of Aherlow]

Given the population of the Maynooth , Celbridge , Leixlip area there surely has to be potential for a LOI team there

[pineapple stu]

Maynooth University Town were making overtures about stepping up, weren't they?

[Martinho II]

Given the population of the Maynooth , Celbridge , Leixlip area there surely has to be potential for a LOI team there

Didnt they try that with Kildare Co in Newbridge and look where it got us?

[Martinho II]

Maynooth University Town were making overtures about stepping up, weren't they?

Yeah think so stu!

[oldfan]

Given the population of the Maynooth , Celbridge , Leixlip area there surely has to be potential for a LOI team there

I'd suspect most of the population interested in LOI would already support a Dublin Club.
What about big Leinster Towns like Navan, Tullamore, Portlaoise?
If Longford can do it they should too.

[Kiki Balboa]

While it is great to be optimistic about expanding into regional towns, I think it is even more important for the FAI to make resources available for struggling LOI teams to continue to exist.

No point in a Kerry FC joining the League, if Athlone Town folds.

We have lost too many teams in the past two decades that now we (as in fans) want to rejoin. Efforts and resources should be there to help those at the bottom of the ladder to continue to grow. Hopefully that is included in the plan for a Third Tier.

[legendz]

Non LoI entities in the underage leagues:

U19
Kerry

U17
Cavan/Monaghan FC
Klub Kildare FC
Carlow Kilkenny FC
Kerry FC

U15
Cavan/Monaghan FC
Mayo FC
Klub Kildare FC
Carlow Kilkenny FC

U14
Cavan/Monaghan FC
Mayo FC
Klub Kildare FC
Carlow Kilkenny FC
Kerry FC

https://cms.sseairtricityleague.ie/s...res%202022.pdf

"2022 season which will see an introduction of overage players in the U19 League so that senior players returning from injury or in need of game-time can take part."

An Intermediary League should be considered as the stepping stone from underage to senior. The intermediary League can be a mix of non LoI entities, third level and then reserve teams. Allow a pathway for a progressive club to take on the bottom team from the First Division in a play-off.

[Kiki Balboa]

I also love speculating about new teams in the league, and what the Third Tier would be comprised of. Here is a list of former LOI related teams. My guess (if the Third Tier does happen) it will be comprised of most likely these teams/areas.

List of A-Championship Teams:
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Castlebar Celtic
F.C. Carlow
Tralee Dynamos
Fanad United

LOI Underage Teams:
Cavan Monaghan FC
Klub Kildare FCMayo FC
Carlow/ Kilkenny FC

List of Regional LOI Teams now Defunct:
Kildare County F.C.
Kilkenny City
Sporting Fingal F.C
Monaghan United


I think there is a common thread of teams which I would expect to be in the Third Tier from that list, which would be a Kerry team (which probably be in the first- A Championship/ ), a Mayo Team (A Championship/underage), a Kilenny team (maybe together with Carlow - not sure the dynamics- A Champ, Underage, ex LOI), a Monaghan team (ex LOI, Underage), and a Kildare team (ex LOI/ Underage).

For Kildare, I know that Maynooth Town with the Univeristy is also intrested, but I think they have no connection to the LOI Kildare setup. Maybe you would have two Kildare teams. I think Malahide too could be a shout (maybe ex LOI is stretch with the connection to Sporting Fingal). Would also expect another Dublin City team, like St. Francis to try to join. Would love to see a Meath team and a Tipp team, but see no groundwork done for that.

[joey B]

I also love speculating about new teams in the league, and what the Third Tier would be comprised of. Here is a list of former LOI related teams. My guess (if the Third Tier does happen) it will be comprised of most likely these teams/areas.

List of A-Championship Teams:
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Castlebar Celtic
F.C. Carlow
Tralee Dynamos
Fanad United

LOI Underage Teams:
Cavan Monaghan FC
Klub Kildare FCMayo FC
Carlow/ Kilkenny FC

List of Regional LOI Teams now Defunct:
Kildare County F.C.
Kilkenny City
Sporting Fingal F.C
Monaghan United


I think there is a common thread of teams which I would expect to be in the Third Tier from that list, which would be a Kerry team (which probably be in the first- A Championship/ ), a Mayo Team (A Championship/underage), a Kilenny team (maybe together with Carlow - not sure the dynamics- A Champ, Underage, ex LOI), a Monaghan team (ex LOI, Underage), and a Kildare team (ex LOI/ Underage).

For Kildare, I know that Maynooth Town with the Univeristy is also intrested, but I think they have no connection to the LOI Kildare setup. Maybe you would have two Kildare teams. I think Malahide too could be a shout (maybe ex LOI is stretch with the connection to Sporting Fingal). Would also expect another Dublin City team, like St. Francis to try to join. Would love to see a Meath team and a Tipp team, but see no groundwork done for that.

Wasn’t there a Ballymun team with ambitions to join? I’d expect them to be apart of it if there was another Dublin team involved…..

[nigel-harps1954]

Monaghan United aren't defunct. They're playing in the Ulster Senior League now.

They're almost certainly targeting the third tier, and I'd wager the likes of Letterkenny Rovers and Cockhill Celtic may just look to step in there too.

[sidewayspasser]

What would be left of the USL then?