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Thread: 2022 Season, Arrivals and Departures

  1. #241
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    And no contract would allow for a “resignation” without a notice period. Which means he can’t be appointed by someone else anytime soon.

  2. #242
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    He could start with Dundalk tomorrow if he wanted. What are Pats going to do about it?

    He may have to waive his notice period pay and it would really properly burn bridges at Inchicore, but there's ways and means around a contract.

    (Exhibit 1 - Neale Fenn)

  3. #243
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    Not at all. Straight to the Four Goldmines. I doubt very much Dundalk would take the risk.

  4. #244
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Straight to the four goldmines and then what?

    Is it not exactly what Fenn did?

    I've seen people walk out of regular jobs too - feck all you can do about it except not pay their notice. You used to be able to withhold their P45 a while, but not any more

  5. #245
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    In that case why do clubs regularly pay large sums to get their new managers released from their existing contracts?

    I don’t even know if he had a notice period. His statement
    today confirms only that he has offered his resignation. Pats are within their rights to refuse to accept it and hold him to his contract until they are happy with the terms of his departure.

    If you think I’m wrong, let’s see if Dundalk announce his appointment.

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    Carefully worded statements from Pats yesterday regarding the Clancy addition to the managerial team and from O'Donnell tonight about informing Pats today of his resignation without any clarity if has been actually accepted by Pats, is he calling a bluff about whether he is actually in any contract or not?

    This saga isn't looking as crazy thanks to the Bircham/Forrest entertainment last week but this one may still have some legs to run
    The Leinster Senior League needs a strong Bohemians

  7. #247
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patsdad View Post
    In that case why do clubs regularly pay large sums to get their new managers released from their existing contracts?

    I don’t even know if he had a notice period. His statement
    today confirms only that he has offered his resignation. Pats are within their rights to refuse to accept it and hold him to his contract until they are happy with the terms of his departure.

    If you think I’m wrong, let’s see if Dundalk announce his appointment.
    It may go to arbitration to agree compensation; I don't know the exact ins and outs in a football capacity. Though Dundalk got nothing for Fenn. It may not have helped that they agreed to annul his contract.

    But there's nothing in employment law stopping him starting with Dundalk tomorrow

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    Is there the possibility that this is an across the board face saving exercise. O'Donnell 'formally' resigns from his position contracted or not, lets St Pats look less naÔve, Dundalk taking fault for jumping the gun with an approach believing he was out of contract, O'Donnell wants to move on without a lot of the acrimony so will suck up any dispute on the vagaries of the contracts , Dundalk wait until the dust settles before formally appointing the new head coach. In the mean time the business of player signings is going on in the background?

    Still boils down to what the terms of the original contract between St Pats and S'OD, any clauses and how they are activated and if this stands up to legal scrutiny, whether a contract was signed in September or not. All very easy to prove although I doubt anyone wants to pay the way through that process. If O'Donnell was still absolutely under contract especially if he signed a new one it will come out in the wash if Pats pursue compensation. If that doesnt happen there was nothing absolute in favour of St Pats case. Dundalk didnt do a whole lot wrong if told their main target was out of contract and when availability was disputed backed off until there was some sort of acceptable spin put on things. I just think if it was cut and dry in St Pats favour it would be with the FAI, a blunt and factual statement made that was not of pure annoyance, maybe proof provided of this, compensation claims would have been made. Clancy was hardly signed so quickly if there was a watertight case. It could be dragged through the courts as it may not be watertight for O'Donnell either and Dundalk and St Pats could agree something - convenience for one and principled by another. All this aside does any Pats fans see O'Donnell back in their dugout next season or coaching in any role there? Jaysus when Dodge loses it or gets a hint of an ego check there must be a mushroom cloud overhead!

  9. #249
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Honestly, what is the point Pats fans going on about this, he's leaving Pats and will be confirmed as Dundalk manager, its only a matter of timing, tonight only confirms what was on the cards from Tuesday night.

    Pats have a new manager, move on guys.
    #DundalkFC - 5 titles in 6 years 2014-2019 / FAI CUP Winners 2020

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    Yeah seriously, why do people talk about literal current events.

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  13. #251
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Is it going to change anything? SOD has left Pats................
    #DundalkFC - 5 titles in 6 years 2014-2019 / FAI CUP Winners 2020

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    I doubt very much that Pats want him anywhere near their dugout. Unless it’s to paint it. But I can’t see them allowing him to take up employment anywhere else until his contract is bought out. This is the norm, folks. It was done properly during the week between Pats and Drogheda in relation to Clancy.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    They can't stop him.

    No more than your employer can stop you walking out in the morning for a better job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    Is it going to change anything? SOD has left Pats................
    Youre right yeah, should probably close this forum down now so.

    Talking about a match after it’s over? What’s the point, it won’t change anything because Team A beat Team B.

    The spire has been bombed? What’s the point in talking about it, it won’t undo the bomb
    Paaatrick's Agletic

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    It may go to arbitration to agree compensation; I don't know the exact ins and outs in a football capacity. Though Dundalk got nothing for Fenn. It may not have helped that they agreed to annul his contract.

    But there's nothing in employment law stopping him starting with Dundalk tomorrow
    For clarity when Fenn approached Dundalk to retire, cash in on whatever sports person tax back the club accepted his request. He requested his player registration with Dundalk be annulled so he could play amateur footy. When Dundalk did so he then was fre to register with Rovers and did so. It was allegedly a loophole that was flagged up for Fenn by the PFAI specifically McGuinness but I dont know who would have had that level of detail unless Fenn/McGuinness said it. It was naÔve by Dundalk to so easily hand up the players reg if he was retiring. With managers simply being employees on contracts and not needing to be registered with clubs/associations rooted in transfer window regs, then wouldnt it be just Irish employment law thats relevant!? So it could take time to tidy up legally, delay announcments out of Oriel but not make a whole lot of difference. Genuine question - can a manager resign as any employee can at any time irrespective of their contract as long as they work their notice period, or give up entitlements to a similar 'value'. Many employers just want the unhappy employee gone as soon as notice is given. I have no idea if a notice period is linked to length of time employed in the kind of way redundancies can be determined?

  18. #256
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patsdad View Post
    I doubt very much that Pats want him anywhere near their dugout. Unless itís to paint it. But I canít see them allowing him to take up employment anywhere else until his contract is bought out. This is the norm, folks. It was done properly during the week between Pats and Drogheda in relation to Clancy.
    What's that got to do with anything, Drogs lost their manager and thanked Pats for taking him? J Christ.
    #DundalkFC - 5 titles in 6 years 2014-2019 / FAI CUP Winners 2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    What's that got to do with anything, Drogs lost their manager and thanked Pats for taking him? J Christ.
    Pats bought out his contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patsdad View Post
    I doubt very much that Pats want him anywhere near their dugout. Unless it’s to paint it. But I can’t see them allowing him to take up employment anywhere else until his contract is bought out. This is the norm, folks. It was done properly during the week between Pats and Drogheda in relation to Clancy.
    If SOD is still under contract and if Pats don't accept his resignation they have then backed themselves into a corner with two managers/head coaches and their salaries now under contract, there is always a risk Dundalk could walk away from it all and appoint someone else
    The Leinster Senior League needs a strong Bohemians

  21. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    They can't stop him.

    No more than your employer can stop you walking out in the morning for a better job.

    God save us from amateur lawyers.

    Football manager contracts are specifically designed to prevent a manager “walking out for a better job”. Why else do you think that compensation is regularly paid, as Pats have done in relation to Clancy?

  22. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract View Post
    The spire has been bombed? What’s the point in talking about it, it won’t undo the bomb
    Not before time.
    Yo no soy marinero. Soy capitan.

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