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Thread: Embarrasing riches: who is Ireland's best goalkeeper?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Well again - the point I was arguing here was that you can't say Bazunu and Travers are saving the same number of shots, so they're both as good, while ignoring that one is playing in a higher division than the other. I did say I was arguing against bad statistics and bad evaluation, and not Bazunu per se.

    Just to clear that bit up first.

    I would broadly agree with your analysis. I was on holidays last month when that Liverpool v Norwich game was on, and I was talking to a Liverpool fan who was watching it, and he said Kelleher was "a class keeper" and didn't know how he wasn't starting for Ireland. OK, he's not going to be watching Bazunu, but I thought it was encouraging to hear a regular Liverpool fan describe him so positively. He was very impressive v Hungary as you say, and the Qatar game was a waste of time. He's in an awkward position at club level of course - and yet Wales have done reasonably well of late with Danny Ward in nets (15 games for Leicester in four years, all in Cups) over, say, Adam Davies, who gets game time a division lower at Stoke. It's not a fully like-for-like comparison, but regular training with a top Premier Division team (Liverpool or Leicester) is better than people give credit for I think. But of course it would be better if he was regularly starting somewhere.

    Bazunu has huge potential, but I think people need to be more reasonable about where he's at right now. People were saying last year that he was getting rave reviews at Rochdale (but I could never find any), and lately they've been saying he's been faultless for us (but he clearly hasn't). There was hopes he could get a move to a Championship club this year, but that didn't happen (I wonder were Bournemouth ever interested?) So it might sound like I'm constantly giving out about the guy, but really I'm just trying to bring in some balance to things. I also do get the feeling that his luck for us is due a turn for the worse and we'll see something like his recent Portsmouth exploits.

    But for November, possession is 9/10th of the law when it comes to keepers. It's certainly his spot to lose, but I'd like to see more rotation in the spring friendlies and in the Nations League, because it's far from clear at the moment who our long-term number 1 is going to be.
    The reviews are easy enough to find if you aren't focusing all your attention on waiting for the slip ups.

    https://www.balls.ie/football/gavin-bazunu-loan-448562
    https://www.irishpost.com/sport/gavi...nundrum-206338
    https://punditarena.com/irish-footba...zunu-rochdale/

    I don't think I disagree with you as much as it appears stu and we've covered this a bit i.e. I'm judging him on promise and you're judging him on readiness now, but I think the lens you are using to view him is causing you to miss out on the good stuff and focus only on the mistakes. I also don't think anyone has said he's been faultless for Ireland? If I did it's certainly not what I believe. He's been very good, and better than some here seem to want to give him credit for, but he's gotten lucky a few times and made some awful decisions that come with being inexperienced.

    I love the LSL v Buffon debate that has spun out here. I'd change it slightly to the LoI v Buffon. Plenty of unbelievable strikes in the LoI that no keeper would stop BUT in stu's defense, you have to take the average shot at each level, not the worldies that pop up occasionally. Keepers at lower levels, on average, face a lower calibre of striker and with that comes a lower frequency of shots that come with the accuracy, pace and power you'd find more regularly at higher levels........I mean that sounds intuitive. I'm not sure how you'd find data around it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    ....
    Power and accuracy are parameters for evaluating the actual shot on target. They do not define a better striker. Sure, if you were to argue a higher level striker is more likely to consistently hit a shot with power and accuracy than his lower level compatriot, I could agree. But a shot is not harder and more accurate simply because it was hit by the foot of a higher level footballer. Every shot is different, ever save made has varying levels of difficult Ė there are so many variables.

    The stats I posted were as a basis for comparison for the relative performances of Bazunu and Travers. The stats were for league performance, and Bazunu stats at international competitive level were later added. You dismissed the addition of the international stats as these include games against Azerbaijan and Luxembourg. I think they are quite impressive stats for a kid playing his first games at this level.

    Anyways others can determine if the stats are a bad measure or not. And sure, I myself accept the stats are a crude measure and thatís why I added a caveat to these stats in my initial post. But there is a measurement there for evaluating the performance of Bazunu and Travers that extends beyond the subjectivity you have posted on Bazunu so far.

    And I havenít misquoted you. :insert roll eyes emoji here:

    Last post on this so donít bother.

  3. #63
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    The reviews are easy enough to find if you aren't focusing all your attention on waiting for the slip ups.

    https://www.balls.ie/football/gavin-bazunu-loan-448562
    https://www.irishpost.com/sport/gavi...nundrum-206338
    https://punditarena.com/irish-footba...zunu-rochdale/
    Well it's funny, cos when I challenged posters for them earlier in the year, they weren't forthcoming (I had spotted the one Team of the Week nomination alright)

    But yeah, I'm judging him on the now and I've always acknowledged that he can only get better. (Of course, he could get a bad injury too and fail to reach his potential as he's still at a key developmental age, but let's not talk about that!) I don't think I disagree as much as ye either. I don't think I have quite the same confidence in him as others do at the moment.

    (It was elatedscum who said "he's been faultless for Ireland" btw)

    On Buffon in the LSL - I'm glad to see someone sees sense on the matter! "Keepers at lower levels, on average, face a lower calibre of striker and with that comes a lower frequency of shots that come with the accuracy, pace and power you'd find more regularly at higher levels........I mean that sounds intuitive." I mean, what more can you really say about it than that? The "on average" bit is key and answers ifk101's latest post on the matter for me. I'm amazed it's even being argued, and the LSL/Buffon stuff is batty altogether.

    Maybe we should bring the Malahide United keeper into consideration here? 7 goals against in 11 games is decent, and he's facing players who hit as hard and accurately as Ronaldo it seems. What can go wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Well it's funny, cos when I challenged posters for them earlier in the year, they weren't forthcoming (I had spotted the one Team of the Week nomination alright)

    But yeah, I'm judging him on the now and I've always acknowledged that he can only get better. (Of course, he could get a bad injury too and fail to reach his potential as he's still at a key developmental age, but let's not talk about that!) I don't think I disagree as much as ye either. I don't think I have quite the same confidence in him as others do at the moment.

    (It was elatedscum who said "he's been faultless for Ireland" btw)

    On Buffon in the LSL - I'm glad to see someone sees sense on the matter! "Keepers at lower levels, on average, face a lower calibre of striker and with that comes a lower frequency of shots that come with the accuracy, pace and power you'd find more regularly at higher levels........I mean that sounds intuitive." I mean, what more can you really say about it than that? The "on average" bit is key and answers ifk101's latest post on the matter for me. I'm amazed it's even being argued, and the LSL/Buffon stuff is batty altogether.

    Maybe we should bring the Malahide United keeper into consideration here? 7 goals against in 11 games is decent, and he's facing players who hit as hard and accurately as Ronaldo it seems. What can go wrong?
    It's the interwebs and if the whole thing wasn't developed specifically for this argument to happen then I want no part of it.

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  6. #65
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    I just remembered btw - I played a game of ball last month on holidays. Gang of mates against a group of English we'd met. We won 9-1; I was in nets and saved six of the seven shots I faced. They could kick the ball with the power and accuracy of Ronaldo - apparently everyone can - so can I put myself into the mix in this thread?

    The keepers for Portugal/Luxembourg should be Kelleher, Bazunu and pineapple stu. You can't argue with the stats!

    I'll settle for a half-hour run-out in Luxembourg.

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    Seasoned Pro ifk101's Avatar
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    Actually pineapple stu, and putting one and one together from your join date and being a UCD fan, I think I have an idea who you are. I remember when I was in UCD, there was the oddity of a small group of UCD ultras :-) - one of which was a small chap that always wore a Wasps rugby jersey. Was that you or one of the others?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Going to have to disappoint you here - no idea what or who you're talking about there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Going to have to disappoint you here - no idea what or who you're talking about there.
    Fair enough. I'd have Bazunu and Kelleher ahead of you for goals ;-)

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    Not to take us completely off the topic of sniping at our various young keepers......but.....is Randolph still in contention for people or have we just moved on? Personally I think we need to pick one of the younger lads and stick with him as we build the team but what do others think?

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  12. #70
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    Hes's only 34, so he could still have a part to play. But I'm ok with him not being in the squad while he's not even in the West Ham squad. (I know that means I'm saying Kelleher sitting on the bench is better than Randolph also not playing, but I'm happy to prioritise youth development in this case)

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  14. #71
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    Randolph has no business being near an Irish squad right now. To be blunt he might as well be retired for all that he's doing at the moment and he doesn't seem overly frantic to do much about that. Which is absolutely his perogative of course but definitely relevant in assessing his viability as an option.

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    Strange how Randolph has fallen so low down the order at West Ham. He generally did ok whenever he played, and begs the question why did they buy him back? Heís a decent keeper, just a pity heís kicking his heels as their third choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by third policeman View Post
    Strange how Randolph has fallen so low down the order at West Ham. He generally did ok whenever he played, and begs the question why did they buy him back? He’s a decent keeper, just a pity he’s kicking his heels as their third choice.
    Doesn’t he have the job of being a Pop-Star's boyfriend at the moment ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by third policeman View Post
    Strange how Randolph has fallen so low down the order at West Ham. He generally did ok whenever he played, and begs the question why did they buy him back? Heís a decent keeper, just a pity heís kicking his heels as their third choice.
    Randolph's entire Premier League career took in 34 games (22 of those in one season). He was never established at that level really. The Championship was probably his natural ceiling aand it's certainly not a bad one. He was deservedly Ireland's number one for a long time but probably held onto the shirt a little longer than he really deserved to due to a lack of alternatives.

    Now? From the outside he looks like a man who is winding down. None of us are privy to the inside track but if he was really motivated to play for Ireland you'd imagine he would have pushed for a loan move at least. If he wants to stay in London a short-term gig with a QPR/Milwall or even back to Charlton might have suited all parties you'd have thought?

    It's entirely his career and choice of course and he gave plenty of service obviously but, as things stand, I wouldn't call him back even of one of the current three was injured. I'd say the first choice for the third placed team in Norway has a better claim than the third choice for West Ham ever before age and potential is weighted in as factors too.

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  20. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadloserkid View Post
    Randolph's entire Premier League career took in 34 games (22 of those in one season). He was never established at that level really. The Championship was probably his natural ceiling aand it's certainly not a bad one. He was deservedly Ireland's number one for a long time but probably held onto the shirt a little longer than he really deserved to due to a lack of alternatives.

    Now? From the outside he looks like a man who is winding down. None of us are privy to the inside track but if he was really motivated to play for Ireland you'd imagine he would have pushed for a loan move at least. If he wants to stay in London a short-term gig with a QPR/Milwall or even back to Charlton might have suited all parties you'd have thought?

    It's entirely his career and choice of course and he gave plenty of service obviously but, as things stand, I wouldn't call him back even of one of the current three was injured. I'd say the first choice for the third placed team in Norway has a better claim than the third choice for West Ham ever before age and potential is weighted in as factors too.
    He certainly seems like a guy that is just winding his football career down. Surely he would be looking for a loan move at least, otherwise. It’s a strange one unless he is having fitness problems that we are not getting to hear about in detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanfhear View Post
    He certainly seems like a guy that is just winding his football career down. Surely he would be looking for a loan move at least, otherwise. It’s a strange one unless he is having fitness problems that we are not getting to hear about in detail.
    My bet is fitness issues given his move to West Ham had issues with a failed medical and even Woodgate passed comment about it being the longest medical he's seen or something like that. And Woodgate knows a thing or two about fitness issues and medicals. He's had his issues with a thigh problem. Had get his defenders to take kick outs for him against Man City before March's internationals.

    He was pushing for a loan and that was the reason given for him not getting called up in September because he was trying to finalise a move. Nothing has come out about why that loan didn't happen. Whether it's down to money or fitness, but he's got himself a handy gig at the moment getting paid 37.5k a week to be at home with Alxendera Burke.

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  23. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR89 View Post
    My bet is fitness issues given his move to West Ham had issues with a failed medical and even Woodgate passed comment about it being the longest medical he's seen or something like that. And Woodgate knows a thing or two about fitness issues and medicals. He's had his issues with a thigh problem. Had get his defenders to take kick outs for him against Man City before March's internationals.

    He was pushing for a loan and that was the reason given for him not getting called up in September because he was trying to finalise a move. Nothing has come out about why that loan didn't happen. Whether it's down to money or fitness, but he's got himself a handy gig at the moment getting paid 37.5k a week to be at home with Alxendera Burke.
    Where did it all go wrong ? We can only hope that things take a turn for the better for the fella very soon ! (wink)

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    Bazunu seems to be back on form, though I hear he got away with an error carrying trhe ball outside the box on Saturday.

    https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/f...nguish-3445665

    I saw an article in The Times on saturday morning where Mikel Arteta said one reason they bought Ramsdale (who has been sensational, which I did not expect) was that they noticed he recovered very well from mistakes. Interesting in context of Bazunu's recent loss of, and return to(?), form. A Ramsdale error very nearly cost Arsenal the win very late yesterday btw. Goalies need luck I guess, and teams need lucky goalies.

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