Ken Bigley

The latest hostage drama in Iraq must be unimaginably terrifying for the remaining hostage Kenneth Bigley. I think it's an absolute disgrace that his government don't use every power they have to get him released. I know they can't publicly say they will negotiate with terrorists but surely they can come to some sort of agreement behind the scenes? I know if it was one of my family (God forbid) I would hold the powers that be personally responsible if he was killed.
For me it is a simple case of having the power to save a mans life. I couldn't live with myself knowing that there was more that I could have done to stop this. Forget politics in a situation like this, how can you have a mans life on your conciance?
I hope to God that he ends up released but from news reports, hope is running out. I can't imagine what his family is going through never mind himself. He will most likely be aware of what happened to his 2 fellow hostages and of how they were killed......How can you let a man suffer like that without doing the everything possible to get him released?
Lets be honest here, if this was Tony Blairs kid or one of the Ministers children then you can be sure that they would be freed....

I agree with you that this isn't about politics.
This is sick this is wrong.
Whatever else has happend in Iraq this is wrong. Northing-nothing can justify this. I know lot's of people on here are against the war, against the USA, against the UK but that has nothing to do with this.
You cannot just kill people. You cannot just cut peoples heads off. You can't make videos of it.

I know some of you are going to say the Americas/Brits have done things just as bad and that's not right either.

But Ken Bigly has done nothing to the Iraqi people, he's just out there earning his living to put food on his table. Even if he had done anything it still does not justify what he's going through.

It wouldn't matter if they're al-quaeda, Checyns, Serbians or the IRA; it's just not right .

Pray for Ken Bigley and his family.

On a side note; if these barstards think that they're going to be doing muslims any favours they don't have a clue. To be honest I can see all hell breaking loose in Britain if they do anything to Ken Bigley and I'm not going to be standing out there stopping people stoning the local Mosque.

saw his elderly mum pleading for his life on tv tonight...............pretty sad stuff alright.
i'm afraid its difficult to see mr bigley being released as neither side wants to loose public face on this one.

expect the worst

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

saw his elderly mum pleading for his life on tv tonight...............pretty sad stuff alright.
i'm afraid its difficult to see mr bigley being released as neither side wants to loose public face on this one.

expect the worst

Sadly have to agree. heard on the radio last night this particular grouping are responsible for about 30 of the 100-odd kidnappings of foreigners that've happened since Dubbya declared the war was won ...they've yet to release a single person alive.

Originally Posted by liam88

I
But Ken Bigly has done nothing to the Iraqi people, he's just out there earning his living to put food on his table. Even if he had done anything it still does not justify what he's going through.

Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined. He could have found work at home so spare me the putting food on the table deal. It's easy to flip the tables and we could say he is there to make a profit and there are risks involved.

As for the kidnappers, anyone who chops off someone's head in the name of Allah or God knows they are not going to sail off into heaven with 70 smelly virgins waiting for them. They know they are going to that burning place. It's just that they don't care.

Really, how can you negotiate with these vile animals? Giving in to them will only encourage them more.

Originally Posted by Metrostars

Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined. He could have found work at home so spare me the putting food on the table deal. It's easy to flip the tables and we could say he is there to make a profit and there are risks involved.

As for the kidnappers, anyone who chops off someone's head in the name of Allah or God knows they are not going to sail off into heaven with 70 smelly virgins waiting for them. They know they are going to that burning place. It's just that they don't care.

Really, how can you negotiate with these vile animals? Giving in to them will only encourage them more.

There was a time up the north a certain group would blow you up if you worked for the RUC or Brithsh Army..... murder is murder

Originally Posted by Metrostars

Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined.

Met an American ex-Marine in Dubrovnik a few weeks ago who worked for a reconstruction firm in Iraq. Apparently the money is pretty good but i didnt rate the $10,000 a month as impressive as he seemed to think it was. He said that when they travel around they move in protected convoys and several times they have been attacked. After i had suggested he'd be lucky to see fifty (he was 40), he said he didnt mind and that when it was decided his time had come then he would accept it (not much choice really ). Anyway i thought at the time that it does say something about the outlook of people heading out there to work at the moment.

Originally Posted by Metrostars

Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined. He could have found work at home so spare me the putting food on the table deal. It's easy to flip the tables and we could say he is there to make a profit and there are risks involved.

Fair enough he's there to make money and probably good money at that but are we all not in the same boat??
I work to "put food on the table" so to speak not for the fun of it.

He knew the risks involved no doubt but that does not mean he deserves this. Various governments openly advertise jobs in Iraq i.e. Building work, telecommunications etc for their people to take up. I've seen it where I am where a couple of friends in the building trade have been on about jobs advertised in trade magazines over in Iraq. Should you not expect your Government to help you in times of need should something bad happen?

Originally Posted by liam88

To be honest I can see all hell breaking loose in Britain if they do anything to Ken Bigley and I'm not going to be standing out there stopping people stoning the local Mosque.

Shame on you!


For evil to triumph all it takes is for good men to do nothing.

Originally Posted by liam88

To be honest I can see all hell breaking loose in Britain if they do anything to Ken Bigley and I'm not going to be standing out there stopping people stoning the local Mosque.

That's a shocking statement to make there, Liam. By your logic, everytime the IRA let off a bomb in England, English people everywhere should go out and stone the nearest Catholic Church.
No excuse for hostage taking, but advocating violence because of it makes you no worse than the fellas holding Ken Bigley.

Wile that's it's happening, but surely no-one was naive enough to think it wouldn't happen?

dfa, Tony Blair doesn't give a flying **** about your man. He's murdered tens of thousands already, sure what's another one to him?

Originally Posted by liam88

On a side note; if these barstards think that they're going to be doing muslims any favours they don't have a clue.

in the same way that any resulting protests / backlash will reflect badly on all non muslims.

people bashing down the doors of the local mosque are no better than the people kidnapping in iraq.... the kidnappers do not represent all muslims in the same way that any potental protest will not represent most normal minded people.

considering there is very little any of us can do to help the situation in iraq the very least we can do is attempt to avert any potental backlash over here

Firstly i think it is a very sad situation and Mr Bigleys wife and family must be going through the worse imaginable time.I hope to god the man is let free..

Next what i would like to say is that it is sad also that so much focus is being put on Mr Bigley alone.Of course it is because he is British and they are one of the occupying countries in Iraq.But what about all the innocent Iraqi people that are dying every day?Last night the Americans dropped a few bombs into an area where they say is a hold-up for terrorists.They could be right but in doing so they also killed INNOCENT IRAQI women and children.Sounds very like what the Israeli's are doing in Palestine.I did not hear many people trying to prevent the Americans from resisting this bombardment.Away from Iraq what about Sudan?All those little children dying and yet all we are seeing is Mr Bigley.Again i say dont get me wrong because this is a terrible sad situation but i think more focus should also be focused elsewhere rather than just on one man right now.You would think that there is enough wealth and food in the world that there should be no one hungry ever.I pray for Mr Bigley but also for the poor starving people of Sudan..

Originally Posted by brendy_éire

That's a shocking statement to make there, Liam. By your logic, everytime the IRA let off a bomb in England, English people everywhere should go out and stone the nearest Catholic Church.
No excuse for hostage taking, but advocating violence because of it makes you no worse than the fellas holding Ken Bigley.

I really hope everyone is going to read this because ma comment has been very badly mis-interpreted (probably my phrasing of it).
I would be completly AGAINST the stonuing of Mosques, stoning to Mosques is not 'my logic' and I'm pretty offended you'd think I would advocate this.
What I'm saying is I've seen some of these BNP/NF/C18 animals who are using the world situation as an excuse to screw Muslims and I'm saying I wouldn't want to get in the way of a load of skinhead yobs stoning a mosque!

Of course i'd be against it, campaign against it just I'm a 16 year old lad and i'm not realistically going to survive one minute out there against a bunch of BNP yobs!

I think whayt htye are doing is sick right! My dad is Catholic but happens to have the same colour skin as many Muslims-result, intensive checks at the airport and probably ****e from the racists if all this flares up in ingurland-ya think i'm going to go by 'my logic' which seems to be the same as the BNP's by some peoples interpritation and start giving ma dad abuse........

I would never advocate destroying the Mosques-loke i said i'm realyl dissapointed you would think i would

Interesting to hear Mr. Bigley's brother on 5Live last night. He said something along the lines that the British Government had totally let them down. He was saying how good the Irish Government have been to their family and how he wished the British would have half their decency.

Originally Posted by SÓC

Interesting to hear Mr. Bigley's brother on 5Live last night. He said something along the lines that the British Government had totally let them down. He was saying how good the Irish Government have been to their family and how he wished the British would have half their decency.

Yeah heard him talking to Gerry Ryan this morning and he was saying pretty much the same thing.
Also said something about how the police spoke to him as the Home Office wanted him to stop his campaign and not do anymore interviews etc as it was embarrassing them.

pity there hasn't been the same outcry over the people held hostage by the US government in guantanamo

Originally Posted by Éanna

pity there hasn't been the same outcry over the people held hostage by the US government in guantanamo

Without trying to dismiss your point Éanna, the inmates in camp X-Ray are unlikely to have their heads hacked off and then have a video of it posted on the Internet.

RedX and Eanna have a point and of course there's rights and wrongs on both sides but that's not what this thread is about.

It's about having the means to save someone and not using them.

Originally Posted by Éanna

pity there hasn't been the same outcry over the people held hostage by the US government in guantanamo

These are POWs. Also, having the threat of having your head cut off is not quite the same as having clean clothes, a daily shower and decent food, most of whom only got once or twice a year in Tora Bora or whever they came from. Plus they get to spend some time in the Carribean.

FWIW, this is what happened to one of them when he was freed from Guantanamo:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040926_475.html

Fire away, flame me. I don't care. I know there is a small precentage who shouldnt be there but the vast majority of these guys are just Osama's minnions.

Originally Posted by Metrostars

These are POWs. FWIW, this is what happened to one of them when he was freed from Guantanamo: http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040926_475.html

No they aren't. The USA has breached international law/the Geneva Convention by denying them POW status, and classifying them as unlawful combatants. They are just as much hostages and victims of kidnapping as Kenneth Bigley is- they're just less likely to be killed. Kenneth Bigley should not be held captive and what is happening him is appalling, but the blame for what has happened him should be directed at Bush and Blair and their campaign of illegal occupation and murder of civilians in Iraq. The only pity is its not Halliburton's oil hungry execs that are getting their heads chopped off and that poor unfortunates like Bigley have got caught in the crossfire.