Portugal V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 1st Sep 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[elatedscum]

I admire the optimism Sam.

Surely Duffy or Egan or O’Shea or Clark are ahead of Phil Babb. Never saw him at Coventry but the lad playing for Liverpool was a calamity for club and country. Decent skin but a player who never came good or reached near his potential.

Also Terry Phelan doesn’t make a team for me either... Alan Kelly didn’t rate him either. I was very very young when I made these judgements but I stand by them

[Fixer82]

I admire the optimism Sam.

Surely Duffy or Egan or O’Shea or Clark are ahead of Phil Babb. Never saw him at Coventry but the lad playing for Liverpool was a calamity for club and country. Decent skin but a player who never came good or reached near his potential.

Also Terry Phelan doesn’t make a team for me either... Alan Kelly didn’t rate him either. I was very very young when I made these judgements but I stand by them

Alan Kelly doesn’t rate Phelan? Where did you read that?

[elatedscum]

Sorry. I meant: “Alan Kelly, I didn’t rate him either”

[Diggs246]

OK, I'll try to cheer you up, Liamoo!! But before I start, I'm going to say that, like many Irish fans, I have written off this campaign. But the next qualifying campaign doesn't start for another eighteen months, which is plenty time for many young players we've been talking about to establish themselves and even for a couple we're not even thinking about to emerge. I also want to note that during the mid-to-late 1990s, it was easier to break into a Premier League club as the full effect of the Bosman ruling hadn't been felt yet and there were only a handful of South American and African players at that level. So with that said, let's analyze our young prospects to see where we could be for the next campaign:
Goalkeepers - Three highly talented young shot stoppers:
Kelleher - Champions League winner and back-up to one of the best keepers in the world
Travers - First teenage goalkeeper to start a Premier League game since Joe Hart in 2006, scored a wonder-goal on his professional debut and now looks like he's first-choice, for now anyway
Bazunu - Professional debut aged 16, international debut aged 19, starting to look the part at Portsmouth
We also have some talented keepers in their mid-20s at Championship clubs (Pym, O'Leary and Bonham) - remember, Randolph didn't establish himself as a championship regular until his mid-20s
Defenders
Dara O'Shea is now established as a Premier league quality and international player, still only 22
Nathan Collins - Championship Debut aged 17, will likely be an established EPL player by the time he's 21 after a transfer that probably had an eight-figure price tag
Andrew Omobamidele - Championship debut aged 18, likely EPL regular before turning 20
There's also McGuinness, Dunne, Masterson, O'Hora, McNamara and Kioso in The Championship and League One, with Garcia-McNulty, Furlong, McEntee and O'Brien within sight of their respective first teams
Midfield
Picture isn't quite as clear but there is still the possibility of a serious wave of talent being available by the time the Euro 24 qualifiers roll around with the following list on the horizon:
Will Smallbone - injury has stopped us fully knowing how good he is but he scored on his professional debut and was only 20 when he made his EPL bow.
Conor Coventry - looks ready to make a breakthrough at West Ham
Finn-Benoa - La Liga debut aged 17, Getafe's youngest player
Jason Knight - Championship debut aged 18, now fully established, seven caps, one international goal, still only 20
Jayson Molumby - mixed success so far but a good season at West Brom would put him right back on track
Gavin Kilkenny - took a bit of time but gaining plaudits for his performances this season
Andrew Moran - senior debut for Bray aged 15, Brighton senior debut aged 17 after a mere 123 minutes of U23 action
Conor Noss - seems close to a Bundesliga breakthrough
Ryan Johansson - sounds like a serious talent - we'll see how his Eredivisie season goes
Festy Ebosele - showed a lot of promise in his recent games for Derby
Louie Watson - I know it was only a League Cup game against Salford, but he ripped their defence apart on several occasions - if that's what he's about, we have a serious talent on our hands

Forwards
As I've said before, this is our most exciting area, when it comes to young talent coming through, starting with the quartet who have already broken through
Aaron Connolly - EPL brace aged 19 against Spurs, could do with a good season this year, though
Adam Idah - hat-trick on his senior debut aged 18, scored 3 Championship goals last season in spite of playing mostly garbage minutes
Michael Obafemi - Southampton's second-youngest EPL debutant and youngest scorer, stunner of a goal against Chelsea, if he takes that move to Blackburn, could be a chance to really establish himself
Troy Parrott - EPL debut aged 17, has gained valuable experience since then even if he hasn't set the world alight - if his recent form is a guide could well be ready to fulfil his potential very soon - still only 19 and has two international goals
And the trio who might be even better (subject to two of them committing their futures to us)
Mipo Odubeko - better U23 stats than any of the above, senior debut for West Ham aged 18
Evan Ferguson - Senior debut for Bohs aged 14, senior debut for Brighton aged 16
Armstrong Okoflex - a couple of questionable club choices but his recent hat-trick for West Ham U23s is hopefully a sign of his potential
And there's even more talent on the striker front who could come through either just before or during the next Euro campaign; Scully, particularly, but also Varian, Kayode and Afolabi

I only expect a few international retirements after this campaign so by March 2023 it's entirely possible we will have a very strong squad with a mix of youth and experience.

Great post. I think we have a real shot for the euros. Its 2 automatic places and a 3rd place playoff. I think we need a new manager to come in with a few games left in this campaign, so they have time to get ready. Like all teams we need a bit of luck. Whether that's a good draw and or a star player coming out of our potential players.

[Diggs246]

The fact you are even naming those players shows we have no viable alternative.

They are alternatives. Kilkenny might not have much experience. But he is playing well and in the same league as hourihane. And if Ryan J. Plays and plays well in the dutch league this weekend why not have him in? Likewise Noss in the Bundesliga

[Eirambler]

An interesting summary of where we are with the developing talent from Sam there - probably a bit on the optimistic side, but I do still think we're heading in the right direction and the team will look a lot better in two years. Inevitably there will be some fall off and some players who don't push on, I would still be concerned that we could look light in midfield and we don't have as many full backs coming through compared to other positions, but there's hope there.

Worth remembering though that the playoffs for the 2024 Euros are based on the Nations League positions - and the Nations League starts at the end of the current season. So it's not really 18 months until the next campaign starts, it's nine months and it's going to come at us quite quickly.

We need to hit the ground running in the Nations League because, with 16 teams in League A and 16 teams in League B, qualification for the playoffs isn't anything like the guarantee it was last time around - we will need to do well, probably with a new manager and a fresh start from this coming June. It's likely that a top 2 finish will be needed in our Nations League group to make the playoffs, with a small chance that we might sneak in with third place, but potentially not. But performances like our last two Nations League campaigns (incredibly we haven't won a game in the competition yet) will see us miss the playoffs again and put extra pressure on for a top two finish in what could be a very tough group as our seeding will have collapsed during Kenny's time in charge.

[pineapple stu]

Sean McDermott is playing regularly for Kristiansund, fifth in the table at the moment

So you agree we don't have a Premier League starter in nets to use as an equivalent for Hourihane?

I'd have Seamus Coleman over Gary Kelly and Matt Doherty over Jeff Kenna.

Matt Doherty has done nothing for us lately. Gary Kelly was a seriously good player with a cracking (if unsustainable) Leeds team who reached the CL semifinals.

You could maybe make a case for Coleman over Kenna alright, though even then Kenna's the one with a Premier League winner's medal.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Kenna really underated. Cracking player at Southampton should have gone to wc Usa

[Olé Olé]

OK, I'll try to cheer you up, Liamoo!! But before I start, I'm going to say that, like many Irish fans, I have written off this campaign. But the next qualifying campaign doesn't start for another eighteen months, which is plenty time for many young players we've been talking about to establish themselves and even for a couple we're not even thinking about to emerge. I also want to note that during the mid-to-late 1990s, it was easier to break into a Premier League club as the full effect of the Bosman ruling hadn't been felt yet and there were only a handful of South American and African players at that level. So with that said, let's analyze our young prospects to see where we could be for the next campaign:
Goalkeepers - Three highly talented young shot stoppers:
Kelleher - Champions League winner and back-up to one of the best keepers in the world
Travers - First teenage goalkeeper to start a Premier League game since Joe Hart in 2006, scored a wonder-goal on his professional debut and now looks like he's first-choice, for now anyway
Bazunu - Professional debut aged 16, international debut aged 19, starting to look the part at Portsmouth
We also have some talented keepers in their mid-20s at Championship clubs (Pym, O'Leary and Bonham) - remember, Randolph didn't establish himself as a championship regular until his mid-20s
Defenders
Dara O'Shea is now established as a Premier league quality and international player, still only 22
Nathan Collins - Championship Debut aged 17, will likely be an established EPL player by the time he's 21 after a transfer that probably had an eight-figure price tag
Andrew Omobamidele - Championship debut aged 18, likely EPL regular before turning 20
There's also McGuinness, Dunne, Masterson, O'Hora, McNamara and Kioso in The Championship and League One, with Garcia-McNulty, Furlong, McEntee and O'Brien within sight of their respective first teams
Midfield
Picture isn't quite as clear but there is still the possibility of a serious wave of talent being available by the time the Euro 24 qualifiers roll around with the following list on the horizon:
Will Smallbone - injury has stopped us fully knowing how good he is but he scored on his professional debut and was only 20 when he made his EPL bow.
Conor Coventry - looks ready to make a breakthrough at West Ham
Finn-Benoa - La Liga debut aged 17, Getafe's youngest player
Jason Knight - Championship debut aged 18, now fully established, seven caps, one international goal, still only 20
Jayson Molumby - mixed success so far but a good season at West Brom would put him right back on track
Gavin Kilkenny - took a bit of time but gaining plaudits for his performances this season
Andrew Moran - senior debut for Bray aged 15, Brighton senior debut aged 17 after a mere 123 minutes of U23 action
Conor Noss - seems close to a Bundesliga breakthrough
Ryan Johansson - sounds like a serious talent - we'll see how his Eredivisie season goes
Festy Ebosele - showed a lot of promise in his recent games for Derby
Louie Watson - I know it was only a League Cup game against Salford, but he ripped their defence apart on several occasions - if that's what he's about, we have a serious talent on our hands

Forwards
As I've said before, this is our most exciting area, when it comes to young talent coming through, starting with the quartet who have already broken through
Aaron Connolly - EPL brace aged 19 against Spurs, could do with a good season this year, though
Adam Idah - hat-trick on his senior debut aged 18, scored 3 Championship goals last season in spite of playing mostly garbage minutes
Michael Obafemi - Southampton's second-youngest EPL debutant and youngest scorer, stunner of a goal against Chelsea, if he takes that move to Blackburn, could be a chance to really establish himself
Troy Parrott - EPL debut aged 17, has gained valuable experience since then even if he hasn't set the world alight - if his recent form is a guide could well be ready to fulfil his potential very soon - still only 19 and has two international goals
And the trio who might be even better (subject to two of them committing their futures to us)
Mipo Odubeko - better U23 stats than any of the above, senior debut for West Ham aged 18
Evan Ferguson - Senior debut for Bohs aged 14, senior debut for Brighton aged 16
Armstrong Okoflex - a couple of questionable club choices but his recent hat-trick for West Ham U23s is hopefully a sign of his potential
And there's even more talent on the striker front who could come through either just before or during the next Euro campaign; Scully, particularly, but also Varian, Kayode and Afolabi

I only expect a few international retirements after this campaign so by March 2023 it's entirely possible we will have a very strong squad with a mix of youth and experience.

Not sure if I prefer your name, your infectious optimism or your deep knowledge of young Irish footballers. Great post and would be made greater if this all comes to fruition.

It does feel like we are on the edge of something. It hasn't felt like that in a long time. Regardless of how competitive or not our 21s can be, the squad is littered with such young quality and we speak mostly about young quality omitted. Makes such a change from having a squad of 22 year olds with an Irish grandparent playing in the Conference. I'm asking myself, for example, if Reece Grego Cox, Rhys Murphy and Joe Quigley ever started together for us under Noel King. That's grim.

[pineapple stu]

Ronaldo signing for Manchester United subject to a medical. Any chance of that distracting him ahead of Wednesday?

[brine3]

So you agree we don't have a Premier League starter in nets to use as an equivalent for Hourihane?


Matt Doherty has done nothing for us lately. Gary Kelly was a seriously good player with a cracking (if unsustainable) Leeds team who reached the CL semifinals.

You could maybe make a case for Coleman over Kenna alright, though even then Kenna's the one with a Premier League winner's medal.

"Could maybe"? Coleman one of the best right backs in our entire history.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough - so one player from the current squad would make the team at what felt like a dark time for the national team, and even then he's replacing a Premier League winner. Doesn't really change the point being made, does it?

[Diggs246]

Fair enough - so one player from the current squad would make the team at what felt like a dark time for the national team, and even then he's replacing a Premier League winner. Doesn't really change the point being made, does it?

To be extra accurate to give the full picture. I think if you checked some of those players ages they were probably in their 30s

[Trequartista20]

Kenna didn't join until Blackburn in March of 1995, making only 9 appearances - not enough for a medal.

In any case, the Premier League of the mid 90s when Irish players just had to compete with the best that Britain had to offer, a few mediocre Scandinavians and only a handful of other more exotic names bears no real comparison with the ultra-cosmopolitan multi-billion pound monolitith of today.

I'd say a fair few of the team that faced Holland in '95 would be no more than Championship players by today's standards.

[John83]

It's definitely a more competitive league now. Back then, the talent went to Italy and Spain. England was a relative backwater until Abramovich bought Chelsea.

I think the optimism about the younger players isn't misplaced, but it is too optimistic on time frame. It'll take more than one wave to make the team strong again. Probably we need the current batch to get another 4-8 seasons under their belts before the team will hit another peak because of the void of senior talent. It takes time for all but the most outrageously talented players to really add steel to a team, and we probably need another wave of good youngsters behind them to fill out the squad.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough - I knew Kenna joined mid-season, but didn't realise he'd joined too late to get a medal.

It's always difficult comparing teams across generations for the reason you note. Plus there's been advancements in training, nutrition, and so on. And of course the likes of Aldo and McGrath were nearing the end of their careers so should be judged as the 36/37-year-old them, not necessarily as the peak we want to remember.

But even with all that, who would you not take from that team and put onto the pitch on Wednesday?

[John83]

But even with all that, who would you not take from that team and put onto the pitch on Wednesday?

Phil Babb.

[pineapple stu]

At the start of his Liverpool career and 15 months on from a ridiculously assured performance at the World Cup, particularly against Italy? I'd have him over Egan, a Championship player, I think.

[Diggs246]

Remember Breen at west ham. He was a disgrace but when the green jersey went on he was excellent

[Colbert Report]

Does anyone know why Scott Hogan of Birmingham was not called up into this squad?