Rocco Vata M Celtic b.2005

[elatedscum]

Grealish at Notts County was ready for the international team. Vata isn’t anywhere close yet.

Hodge isn’t ready but basically it’s between him, Conor Coventry and (if he got games) Gav Kilkenny for that 4th holding midfield spot which was held by Hourihane. Personally I’d have Hodge in the next squad unless there’s issues we’re unaware of.

Vata is a much more attacking player and much much further from being ready. Andy Moran is currently a better footballer for example. Vata is really really talented but he’s 16 and the 19s or 21s is the limit of where he should be, from a merit perspective.

In the olden days a single cap would sort it and you could argue a justification for it but nowadays I think you need 4 caps to seal the deal, which really changes the dynamics.

[pineapple stu]

Again, these types of players should be replacing the older squad members who've shown what they can do or more to the point, what they can't do.

I don't think Vata is the kind of player who should be replacing older players in the squad though.

Hodge for Hourihane - that's fine. No problems with that, so long as we don't expect him to single-handedly transform our fortunes of course.

But Vata has done nothing to warrant a call-up. I guess I'm a bit wary of comments like "as soon as it was clear there was big talent there" because of the volume of players who posters here have reckoned have had big talent and then dropped away. Grealish achieved a lot more at Notts than Vata has so far.

And if you're not going to cap him, it makes even less sense to give him a call up. Why not bump him up to the 21s? His achievements at club level are noted, and I don't see why he couldn't be thrown in for a 21s game.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Grealish at Notts County was ready for the international team. Vata isn’t anywhere close yet.

Hodge isn’t ready but basically it’s between him, Conor Coventry and (if he got games) Gav Kilkenny for that 4th holding midfield spot which was held by Hourihane. Personally I’d have Hodge in the next squad unless there’s issues we’re unaware of.

Vata is a much more attacking player and much much further from being ready. Andy Moran is currently a better footballer for example. Vata is really really talented but he’s 16 and the 19s or 21s is the limit of where he should be, from a merit perspective.

In the olden days a single cap would sort it and you could argue a justification for it but nowadays I think you need 4 caps to seal the deal, which really changes the dynamics.

Oh I know he's not ready yet but Grealish had no issues playing for us underage, it's when a senior call up was offered, he hit the road. A call up now could push the issue but I take the point I could be overzealous here. I just think we have to push the boat out and not look back in 10 years to a new list of players who could have been playing for us.

I'd go after anyone showing promise, be they in Britain, the North or Lagos. Maybe an u21 call up is correct for Vata for now but if opportunities popped up like a friendly against Malta I'd have him involved, no question.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I don't think Vata is the kind of player who should be replacing older players in the squad though.

Hodge for Hourihane - that's fine. No problems with that, so long as we don't expect him to single-handedly transform our fortunes of course.

But Vata has done nothing to warrant a call-up. I guess I'm a bit wary of comments like "as soon as it was clear there was big talent there" because of the volume of players who posters here have reckoned have had big talent and then dropped away. Grealish achieved a lot more at Notts than Vata has so far.

And if you're not going to cap him, it makes even less sense to give him a call up. Why not bump him up to the 21s? His achievements at club level are noted, and I don't see why he couldn't be thrown in for a 21s game.

Like the post above, I'll accept I get over excited about emerging talent. And now especially if it's anyone from midfield forward. If it was me in charge I'd still call him up but I'm not in charge. Thank the lord says you.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!!

[SkStu]

The thing is, if it was a choice between Vata and Hourihane, then why not go with Vata? Same with a any other choice between a player who's had their chance and shown that they're not at this level and young players showing promise.

It might not seem right but players who qualify for other nations need to be prioritised. It's what a country like Wales have done previously. Players may still leave like Rice but we have to give ourselves the best opportunity.

I’m generally in favour of bringing through youth early but it has to make some sense. You’re talking about calling up a Celtic B player who has 8 minutes of senior football. The players that Wales brought through early were at a completely different level.

Vata has a long way to go to be automatically ahead of Hourihane in any scenario…and they are not like for like to the best of my knowledge.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I’m generally in favour of bringing through youth early but it has to make some sense. You’re talking about calling up a Celtic B player who has 8 minutes of senior football. The players that Wales brought through early were at a completely different level.

Vata has a long way to go to be automatically ahead of Hourihane in any scenario…and they are not like for like to the best of my knowledge.

I don't think they were at a completely different level. Ethan Ampadu for example. He was 16 when Wales called him up. He had played a few games in league 2 and afterwards signed for Chelsea. He qualified for us and England but Wales were proactive and got their man. We need to take a lead from their book.

I was just using Hourihane as an example of a squad member who more than likely won't be seeing game time at his stage.

[tetsujin1979]

Proactive and kept their player. I don't think he had any interest in playing for us.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

He played for England u16's. I think that would have been the main worry. It's not a guarantee as we know all too well but promoting them early gives you the best chance of holding on to them.

[SkStu]

Ampadu was never really seen as a flight risk for Wales. Thought you were more talking about players like Neco Williams and Brennan Johnson who were definitely a fair distance ahead of where Vata is now when they were called up.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Ampadu was never really seen as a flight risk for Wales. Thought you were more talking about players like Neco Williams and Brennan Johnson who were definitely a fair distance ahead of where Vata is now when they were called up.

Ampadu played for England u16's. I think Wales called him up to the senior squad before he got a move to Chelsea. People would have said Rice wasn't a flight risk until he was. Ampadu and Vata would be in similar positions choice wise at the same age.

[tetsujin1979]

This interview with his Exeter coach clarifies it - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45479077

Ampadu did play two games for England Under-16s in August, 2015 against United States, as he pondered his international options.

He had also been involved in Wales and England junior development since an early age, eventually settling on a future for the land of his mother.

So it was more that his mind was made up to play for Wales, rather than the Welsh FA prising him from England

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

This interview with his Exeter coach clarifies it - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45479077

So it was more that his mind was made up to play for Wales, rather than the Welsh FA prising him from England

I didn't say anything about prising him away from anyone. It's more about holding onto him, like Ampadu for Wales. They brought him onboard before agents or anyone at Chelsea tried to convince him of the England route.

But Ampadu was just an example in this case as they're in a similar dilemma at the same age. I would be going after others who qualify but are with other teams now. Throw everything at them, bring them on trips to Connemara, give them their first pint, teach them about Fenian history and call them up to the top squad and send them to war.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!!

[SkStu]

OK. I’m convinced.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cmzrb...d=NTdlMDg3MTY=

Watch Vata’s reaction to McCann’s own goal in the B derby yesterday. McCann who recently switched from FAI to IFA…

[tommy_c12000]

Hopefully he matures a bit, that’s a bit pathetic and a very Grealish thing to do…

[backstothewall]

Our next game is a daft friendly against Latvia. If we don't use that to bring in new players, what's the point of the game?

We have a player here who is seemingly regarded by Europe's elite clubs as a genuine prospect. He's not played much senior football but so what? Norman Whiteside had played twice for Man United when Billy Bingham took him to the World Cup.

It may be that we play him against Latvia and learn that he's not ready yet. Or maybe he'll light up Lansdowne Road and end up in the team for the France match on the back of his performance. It's very easy to say he's not ready yet, but nobody can say for sure. The brave thing to do is let him have a run at the Latvians and find out.

We know everything there is to know about Conor Hourihane. He's a good passer, he's great at set pieces, but he's a bit lightweight and can drift out of games at times.

[nigel-harps1954]

Which of Europe's elite clubs regard Vata as a genuine prospect?

Forgive me if I missed those articles, but I've not seen anything to suggest that.

[Olé Olé]

Which of Europe's elite clubs regard Vata as a genuine prospect?

Forgive me if I missed those articles, but I've not seen anything to suggest that.

https://m.milannews.it/calciomercato...resenti-477452

Impossible to know how genuine these kind of articles are. Similar reports earlier this season too.

[elatedscum]

Just looking at 2005, would that even put him ahead of the likes of Zefi and Heffernan who are already at those kinda clubs. Meanwhile Ferizaj linked with City among a host of clubs once he turns 18 and Curtis linked with Chelsea and City. Plus you’ve also got Mark O’Mahony who’s scored 14 goals across 16 games internationally across the last 15 months.

There’s a handful of players every year who have that elite potential, those are the 6 obvious ones. (Vata, Zefi, Heffernan, Curtis, Ferizaj, O’Mahony). By comparison, 2002 would be (Bazunu, Omobamidele, Hodge, Parrott, Ebosele and maybe Okoflex or Cannon)

But for the 2005 players, it’s still a long long way to go before

There’s another dozen lads who are in the tier below, who with a good season could propel themselves into someone to be excited about: guys like O’Brien-Whitmarsh who’s had a terrible time with injuries, Caden McLoughlin who was the star at u15 and u16 level but lost his place to O’Mahony at u17 level. Franco Umeh, incredibly raw, but potential is there etc etc etc

Maybe Vata is gonna be world class but he’s got a lot of development still to do and unless the development in the last 2 months is phenomenal, he’s currently a mile behind Knight, Smallbone, Ronan, Mandriou, Sykes, Noss.

I’d have no issue with him being with the 19s who are playing in the elite phase or the 21s who are set to have the first meet up of the new squad.

[Jd2793]

Hopefully he matures a bit, that’s a bit pathetic and a very Grealish thing to do…

meh mccann gave it plenty when they scored , if you arent prepared to take it dont give it.

[Jd2793]

Just looking at 2005, would that even put him ahead of the likes of Zefi and Heffernan who are already at those kinda clubs. Meanwhile Ferizaj linked with City among a host of clubs once he turns 18 and Curtis linked with Chelsea and City. Plus you’ve also got Mark O’Mahony who’s scored 14 goals across 16 games internationally across the last 15 months.

There’s a handful of players every year who have that elite potential, those are the 6 obvious ones. (Vata, Zefi, Heffernan, Curtis, Ferizaj, O’Mahony). By comparison, 2002 would be (Bazunu, Omobamidele, Hodge, Parrott, Ebosele and maybe Okoflex or Cannon)

But for the 2005 players, it’s still a long long way to go before

There’s another dozen lads who are in the tier below, who with a good season could propel themselves into someone to be excited about: guys like O’Brien-Whitmarsh who’s had a terrible time with injuries, Caden McLoughlin who was the star at u15 and u16 level but lost his place to O’Mahony at u17 level. Franco Umeh, incredibly raw, but potential is there etc etc etc

Maybe Vata is gonna be world class but he’s got a lot of development still to do and unless the development in the last 2 months is phenomenal, he’s currently a mile behind Knight, Smallbone, Ronan, Mandriou, Sykes, Noss.

I’d have no issue with him being with the 19s who are playing in the elite phase or the 21s who are set to have the first meet up of the new squad.

yeah interesting age group alright whitmarsh was linked with PL clubs at 16 so he must have something, youd pray the knee injuries havent knocked him back. i'd love if we played omahony and umeh more this season but i cant see it. they'll likely leave in the summer id imagine once exams are done. healy didnt really give either of them a lot of game time in a terrible first division last year so cant see them geting much this time out when stakes are higher.
on curtis, i think hes a much brighter prospect than heffernan. honestly stood out a lot more playing for ireland when i saw him (before pats played him). heffernan does have the height though and if he grows into the frame they could drill all the football into him. curtis just looks the business , i hate hyping these kids up but i really think he has it all to be an international in the next few years.