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Thread: Hungary v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 8th June 2021 - Friendly

  1. #181
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    I have no preference for either but I don't get how Kelleher showed more in the 2nd half. He faced more shots and played very well but Bazunu saved everything that came his way too. He can't manufacture chances for him to save them and they both looked completely comfortable with their feet. Neither had the beating of the other based on last night's game.

    Kelleher is 3 and a quarter years older than Bazunu and last night was his 11th senior match of his career. We haven't seen enough of either to be making any judgements.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut View Post
    I have no preference for either but I don't get how Kelleher showed more in the 2nd half. Neither had the beating of the other based on last night's game.
    On the basis of last night's game, yep, they both played quite well and while Kelleher showed better because he had more to do, that's not to say that Bazunu couldn't have played as well in the second half.

    But for me the issue is that Kelleher had more to do in those 45 than Bazunu had in his 3 appearances, and yet Bazunu made 5/6 really bad errors in that time. He was at fault for the goal against Andorra (as were many others), he had two rushes of blood against Qatar (the ghost penalty plus a rush to the edge of the box to drop the ball) and one against Luxembourg (Coleman rescued him), was nearly caught out by bad placing from a free-kick against Luxembourg (as Stutts flagged at the time) and had a couple of instances of passing straight to the opposition 25 yards or so out. It's a lot for such a short spell of time in games where we weren't really under pressure. Kelleher barely put a foot wrong last night by contrast in the face of greater pressure.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    On the basis of last night's game, yep, they both played quite well and while Kelleher showed better because he had more to do, that's not to say that Bazunu couldn't have played as well in the second half.

    But for me the issue is that Kelleher had more to do in those 45 than Bazunu had in his 3 appearances, and yet Bazunu made 5/6 really bad errors in that time. He was at fault for the goal against Andorra (as were many others), he had two rushes of blood against Qatar (the ghost penalty plus a rush to the edge of the box to drop the ball) and one against Luxembourg (Coleman rescued him), was nearly caught out by bad placing from a free-kick against Luxembourg (as Stutts flagged at the time) and had a couple of instances of passing straight to the opposition 25 yards or so out. It's a lot for such a short spell of time in games where we weren't really under pressure. Kelleher barely put a foot wrong last night by contrast in the face of greater pressure.
    How was there less pressure while we were aiming for our first win than in the game right after it? I think part of what we saw last night was down to that monkey being off the back to be honest. Everyone played with a bit more confidence bar the few mentioned to death.

    You could make the case that both keepers may have struggled here and there previous to the defense getting their act together last night. Having Duffy back to somewhat normal was fantastic. We are in a position where both look like they could be #1 for a long time but neither are the finished article yet.

    All this said, I think Kelleher is still ahead in his development. So when I'm backing Bazunu here it's only in the face of criticism that might be a tad harsh for a teenager. I think they are close in terms of readiness but 3 years is a lot at that age even if Kelleher looks the younger in terms of build. Kelleher would have been ahead had he been available for this last run of games perhaps. The battle for #1 will be interesting.

    So you and I get to do this for another 15 years!

  4. #184
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    How was there less pressure while we were aiming for our first win than in the game right after it?
    I think you're misinterpreting. I mean there was more pressure in the pure football sense because Hungary created more chances in the second 45 than we had faced in Bazunu's 315 minutes against Qatar, Luxembourg, Andorra and Hungary (first half)

    Bazunu's mistakes had nothing to do with the defence and everything to do with him rushing off his line when he shouldn't have. Nothing the defenders can do about that. There's nothing harsh about criticising that in my view. He's a big boy now in the senior squad; if he's costing goals or giving huge scares like that, he can get called up on it.

    We shouldn't get to do this for 15 years because he'll improve in the next couple of years (probably!) and get it out of his system, and then he'll be worth a place in the side.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I think you're misinterpreting. I mean there was more pressure in the pure football sense because Hungary created more chances in the second 45 than we had faced in Bazunu's 315 minutes against Qatar, Luxembourg, Andorra and Hungary (first half)

    Bazunu's mistakes had nothing to do with the defence and everything to do with him rushing off his line when he shouldn't have. Nothing the defenders can do about that. There's nothing harsh about criticising that in my view. He's a big boy now in the senior squad; if he's costing goals or giving huge scares like that, he can get called up on it.

    We shouldn't get to do this for 15 years because he'll improve in the next couple of years (probably!) and get it out of his system, and then he'll be worth a place in the side.
    So you want the keeper in who results in us coughing up the most chances?

  6. #186
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Let's not go all Cathy Newman on this, shall we? That's not what I said, and you know it. Did Kelleher really have anything to do with how many chances Hungary created?

    At this stage, I want the keeper who commits the fewer howlers and is responsible for fewer goals conceded. Of the two (Kelleher, Bazunu), that's Kelleher based on what I've seen.

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  8. #187
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    Without breaking it down minute by minute, I felt more comfortable with Kelleher in there than Bazunu, or certainly Travers.

    The goalkeeping position must be the least of our worries though...

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  10. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Let's not go all Cathy Newman on this, shall we? That's not what I said, and you know it. Did Kelleher really have anything to do with how many chances Hungary created?

    At this stage, I want the keeper who commits the fewer howlers and is responsible for fewer goals conceded. Of the two (Kelleher, Bazunu), that's Kelleher based on what I've seen.

    My emoji game must be off - twas a joke stu. I'm not arguing with you here out of any lack of respect for the points you're making. Just putting up a different perspective.

    But to answer your question, maybe he did? He didn't seem as vocal back there but maybe the game just opened up a bit. It was really only the 2 saves he made of any note though and both in the same sequence of play so it's not as if Hungary really had us under the cosh. We had better chances in the second half as well but it was a marginal thing and probably more to do with the way the game was going and our slight change in system than anything else.

    Outside of Kelleher, now that we've done that to death - who impressed you and others most over the two games? For me, Knight, Duffy, Horgan and Egan showed why they would be worth their place. O'Shea was ok. McClean was himself but probably the best version of it. Idah had flashes. Ogbene looks a bit of a handful. I'd hoped to see more of McGrath

    And of course, the million bitcoin question - who was the worst player picked for the squad...matchday that is?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    I think a different smiley is needed for sarcastic questions! Cathy Newman-ing is all too common on the internet unfortunately...

    I don't think there's any real evidence that he was responsible for Hungary's extra attacking impetus in the second half. Bazunu had one save to make that I recall (and a good one at that). Kelleher had five or six saves to make, some easier than others of course, but the snapshot from the edge of the area was a "save of note" as well. Hungary didn't have us under the cosh, but we were definitely under more pressure than in the previous games.

    On the others - I thought it was a waste bringing on Ogbene for the last two minutes, who I didn't really rate in the first place. He did surprisingly well all things considered. But I don't think anyone really stood out. We scored four goals against a tired Andorra - and credit Parrott and McClean for taking the game by the scruff of the neck in that regard - and didn't create a huge amount against Hungary. Again, it's hard to judge the Hungary game because we know what can happen in the last friendly before a finals. I'm happier with the team now than I was after the Luxembourg game, and there are signs some of the younger players are starting to settle in in midfield in particular, but we're still far from decent and I think there's a big year ahead for a lot of the younger players which will decide if they'll even make it as senior regulars. But I'm more interested in the September games tbh. There's no point drawing in Hungary if we're going to lose a competitive game to Luxembourg again (or Azerbaijan, as we actually do play them in September)

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    I think this Bazunu / Kelleher debate could do with its own thread call it spot the micro difference or splitting hairs or whatever.

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    Thought Troy looked good against Hungary, even if it didn't always work out for him.
    Feel more hopeful than I did a week ago
    Folding my way into the big money!!!

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    Ah but it's actually one of the few positives to come out of all this. Maybe it's a way of ignoring the fact that we aren't going to be in great shape for a few years based on what I've seen. That's my opinion anyway. I just don't see enough quality coming through and there's that big gap in age groups where we have nobody approaching what should be their prime. Decades of neglect etc. It's why I'm OK with Kenny in there on a relatively small salary and I'm OK with young lads making mistakes if they show some potential to be what we need in 3-4 years. I don't hold out a lot of hope for the September games so I'm looking for any green shoots over the past few games and the next few years.

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    Seasoned Pro Razors left peg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Define a very good side?
    One that you wont complain about

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  18. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Let's not go all Cathy Newman on this, shall we? That's not what I said, and you know it. Did Kelleher really have anything to do with how many chances Hungary created?

    At this stage, I want the keeper who commits the fewer howlers and is responsible for fewer goals conceded. Of the two (Kelleher, Bazunu), that's Kelleher based on what I've seen.
    Bazunu loan move to Dundalk would be perfect!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    I'd hoped to see more of McGrath
    I was hoping he would get a decent run out. I dont really follow the SPL, and tbh I didnt see him as one of the main successful moves from LoI but a pleasant surprise that he got in to the team of the year and could be on bigger clubs' radar. To see how he has improved in a better overall team performance would have been good. The general thinking at the time of his move to St Mirren was that he hadnt been showing his best form or progressed as hoped for and that another year in LoI with him knuckling down and getting a move to match his potential was the way to go. But fair play, he made the move work and adapted to a new league well and earned his call up. I hope he can be the calming creative player than can unlock defences and he must have added some grit to his game too.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 09/06/2021 at 4:58 PM.

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    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I dont really follow the SPL, and tbh I didnt see him as one of the main successful moves from LoI but a pleasant surprise that he got in to the team of the year and could be on bigger clubs' radar.
    Irish player doing well with a smaller team in Scotland. I'm worried that the really obvious will happen and he'll end up in the second string at Celtic.

    A move to Holland or Belgium could be good.
    Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.

  20. #196
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    Not sure there's a thread where this really fits, but it's a lovely read. Interview with Charlie O'Leary, a man who has been alive for every international game played since the FAI was formed. Some great little stories particularly the Vienna roll on the autobahn and the water boy. https://www.the42.ie/charlie-oleary-...61998-Jun2021/

    I suppose there's some relevance to today in terms of what it takes to build a squad and an atmosphere that brings player together and gets the best of them. Stephen Kenny got a little bit of stick for mentioning making the training camp fun, but there's no doubt it's important for players to bond and have a laugh together.

    Tallaght Stadium Regular

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    On the basis of last night's game, yep, they both played quite well and while Kelleher showed better because he had more to do, that's not to say that Bazunu couldn't have played as well in the second half.

    But for me the issue is that Kelleher had more to do in those 45 than Bazunu had in his 3 appearances, and yet Bazunu made 5/6 really bad errors in that time. He was at fault for the goal against Andorra (as were many others), he had two rushes of blood against Qatar (the ghost penalty plus a rush to the edge of the box to drop the ball) and one against Luxembourg (Coleman rescued him), was nearly caught out by bad placing from a free-kick against Luxembourg (as Stutts flagged at the time) and had a couple of instances of passing straight to the opposition 25 yards or so out. It's a lot for such a short spell of time in games where we weren't really under pressure. Kelleher barely put a foot wrong last night by contrast in the face of greater pressure.
    Id agree with most of this but I think it's a stretch to blame him for the Andorra goal. I thought it was awful defending and a textbook perfect header.

  22. #198
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    Haven’t been on for a while.

    Andorra:
    4 goals and 2 missed sitters (Collins, Curtis) on a horrible plastic pitch. So Andorra got tired. So what? That’s how these games tend to pan out. Better teams eventually get the better of lesser teams. Were Andorra less fit last week than any other time we played them? We’ve never scored 4 vs Andorra before and we have looked rubbish against them before. Take it and move on. Stop the national self-loathing.

    Hungary:
    I really enjoyed this. I thought we looked like a normal 21st century football team. Maybe a bit too stand-offish, too happy to pat ourselves on the back for keeping good shape without the ball. I thought we lacked ambition for too much of the game but when we showed some we looked good, especially from 65 mins onwards as the game got stretched. I wonder does playing in front of a crowd again improve things? Playing in a totally empty Aviva must be soul destroying.

    Idah went from being unable to make the ball stick in the first half to finishing the game looking like a real 9. Ogbene was a live wire when he came on and I’d bet he’s a real character in the camp too.

    Horgan was class. In general we struggle to play through opponents’ lines (Hourihane…) but Horgan gets between the lines well. I prefer a Wes / Modric type who can get between lines by clever passing and movement but Horgan’s ability to carry the ball between lines makes a huge difference (reminding me of McGeady’s carry through midfield to ultimately set up the Brady goal in Lille). He’s really good in tight spaces, wide or centrally and is the real winner of these two games imho. O’Shea looks like a seasoned pro. Molumby added bite. I’ve always liked Cullen. I like what he does, bread & butter midfielder stuff. Knight is getting better. Both keepers impressed. Each is a really confident kid. Kelleher shading it for me from this point on. I wonder has Kiely been an upgrade on Kelly?

    Overall lots to be happy with. Some individual errors of course but as a unit we finally looked like a normal football team, which may be damning with faint praise but it’s also clearly an improvement.

    Some of these kids are really starting to find their way and I’m looking forward to seeing more. It’s probably the first game from Kenny that was actually what I was expecting from him in the first instance. I think persisting with Hourihane deep is still an alarming blind spot of Kenny’s though.

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  24. #199
    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    Seeing the other countries kick off in this is hard.

    We should have been in this one.
    Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.

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  26. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razors left peg View Post
    One that you wont complain about
    Define a good side? One that picks itself.

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