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Thread: To super league or to not super league ...

  1. #101
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    All six English sides are withdrawing. It's over, for now.

    Plenty of angry people calling for punitive action to the clubs in question, but I imagine that's a non-starter. Weirdly in a few weeks the CPL and EL might be won by teams that were involved!
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    The Times is reporting that one of the six English teams is having emergency discussions at executive level about backing out after the fan backlash. Clickbait or signs of hope?

    You'd imagine it's probably Liverpool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa View Post
    Liverpool and United are the biggest pushers for it.

    Chelsea and City are now rumored to be pulling out.
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    BBC reporting that Chelsea are pulling out. This idea might be sunk.

    Edit - Confirmed that City are gone too.

    Edit #2 - All happening fast, reports that all 12 clubs are considering disbanding the whole idea. Some turn around from this morning!
    Guardian live feed suggesting that the City and Chelsea oligarch owners having interests in their clubs other than profit might not be coincidental to their crumbling; the rest are naked profiteers. Same feed, btw, reveals that Theresa May's former press officer was doing the PR for the dirty dozen. Or, doing it as badly as could be imagined. And coincidentally, Sajid Javid and Chuka Umunna were recently appointed to the bank that was funding the league - so I suspect that Bojo's appetite for taking on the clubs might be tempered a little, given the level of ex-Westminster and especially Tory involvement (even if Javid and Umunna seem to have been peripheral) and now that there seems to be no need for political action. Why antagonise the money markets needlessly just for plebs' votes, after all? I hope I'm wrong.

    I'm originally from Old Trafford. There's no way to express the shame and anger that the club literally a few streets from where I was born, in George Best's last season in the red, could treat this game of ours so despicably. But I don't for one minute think this is the end.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
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  3. #103
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Reading the six statements, and I think Arsenal are the only ones to flat-out apologise, if that means anything to anyone. Remarkable 48 or so hours. Very pertinent thread here from one of the Soccernomics authors, on the nature of incompetence in football boardrooms: https://twitter.com/KuperSimon/statu...87075115233284
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    The Times is reporting that one of the six English teams is having emergency discussions at executive level about backing out after the fan backlash. Clickbait or signs of hope?

    You'd imagine it's probably Liverpool.
    It was never going to be them, given their owners.

  6. #105
    First Team mcgonigle's Avatar
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    As funny as it is I'm a bit disappointed that this ended so quickly. Was hoping for a long drawn out battle so that barstoolers would get a good look at what they are supporting. This will all be forgotten in a week and sofas across the country will be full for the weekend but not tuned into WLOI unfortunately.

  7. #106
    Youth Team Kiki Balboa's Avatar
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    The dark part of me wanted it to last till the first game, with the English teams relegates, and the tournament becoming a massive flop.

    Besides, everyone knows there is too much money at the top of world football (and even maybe in our league). The wealth gap between the super clubs and the rest is what is making football stale at the top level. The Coup to keep more money is really sickening/ pointless / dull / monotonous.

  8. #107
    Reserves redarmyfaction's Avatar
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    Raging it didn't happen, in an admittedly unscientific survey carried out by me today, 100% of respondents confirmed that they will stay affiliated to their respective franchise despite their franchise been involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redarmyfaction View Post
    Raging it didn't happen, in an admittedly unscientific survey carried out by me today, 100% of respondents confirmed that they will stay affiliated to their respective franchise despite their franchise been involved.
    Of course they will. If fans of teams like Man United were really that bothered about the way their clubs were being run, or how fans were being treated, they'd have done something about it already (and I don't mean just wearing a green and yellow scarf for a while). But they clearly just don't care enough. They deserve everything they get.

  10. #109
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    Of course they will. If fans of teams like Man United were really that bothered about the way their clubs were being run, or how fans were being treated, they'd have done something about it already (and I don't mean just wearing a green and yellow scarf for a while). But they clearly just don't care enough. They deserve everything they get.
    didn't they also form FC United of Manchester when the Glaziers behaviour became known?
    seems like a pretty substantial action to take when they became so disillusioned.

  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    didn't they also form FC United of Manchester when the Glaziers behaviour became known?
    seems like a pretty substantial action to take when they became so disillusioned.
    A small proportion of United fans did. FC United were getting in the region of 2,000 at games, whilst Old Trafford continued to sell out all its 76,000 seats.

    And the gobsh'tes who support United in Ireland weren't the ones switching allegiance to an alternative fan-owned club.

    Liverpool developed a couple of fan-owned alternatives = FC Liverpool and City of Liverpool FC. They each get a few hundred at games, whilst Anfield continues to sell out its 53,000 seats.

    Again - if the fans were really that bothered about how their clubs were being run or how they were being treated, they'd have done something about it by now. There are ready-made alternatives for fans of Man U and Liverpool to do so - yet few take that option. They're not interested, despite all their whinging.
    Last edited by EatYerGreens; 21/04/2021 at 4:00 PM.

  12. #111
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    To many its about the brand and not grass roots football.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKMK View Post
    To many its about the brand and not grass roots football.
    Exactly. They'll make loads of excuses, but the bottom line is they don't want to watch games against Runcorn or Prescott Cables - even if it means being treated better and building something sustainable and attractive in the process. They're just not interested. Though you can be sure if FC United made it to the Football League they'd suddenly take an interest and tell everyone they used to go back in the day before they were big.

    If you're still supporting Man U after the Glazers bought the cliub and saddled it with the debt from doing so etc etc, then you are just an empty commercial vessel. Doubly so if you're doing it in Ireland whilst turning your nose up at domestic football. You deserve everything bad that happens to 'your' club and to you as one of its consumers.
    Last edited by EatYerGreens; 21/04/2021 at 4:01 PM.

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    Can anyone enlighten me on the actual debt these initial 12 ESL clubs have amassed given their desire to solve that problem with the formation of the now abandoned league.listening to 95fm here in Limerick this morning our obviously ill informed soccer correspondent reckoned on 70 billion.i would assume its around 3/3 billion?

  15. #114
    Coach John83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da bishop View Post
    Can anyone enlighten me on the actual debt these initial 12 ESL clubs have amassed given their desire to solve that problem with the formation of the now abandoned league.listening to 95fm here in Limerick this morning our obviously ill informed soccer correspondent reckoned on 70 billion.i would assume its around 3/3 billion?
    Ah, here. Read Madrid have around 0.9 billion in debt. Man Utd have half that. No way the twelve of them add up to any more than a few billion.
    Vaccinated.

  16. #115
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    Ah, here. Read Madrid have around 0.9 billion in debt. Man Utd have half that. No way the twelve of them add up to any more than a few billion.
    Real Madrid are reportedly €900m in debt, have long been spending more than they bring in, have Covid losses still to account for, and need to find €570m to rebuild the Bernabeu (and we all know how reliable building estimates are!):
    https://en.as.com/en/2020/12/21/foot...69_507998.html

    Barcelona meanwhile, are reported to be €1.2bn in debt, are also overspending/Covid etc, and need to find €600m to revamp the Camp Nou (though they're said to have been forced to scale that back):
    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/bc/b...ent-experience

    While Atletico, whose balance sheet looks healthier and already have their own new stadium built, are €999m in debt:
    https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/...venues-la-liga
    So they're not so worried - I mean, it's not as if they owe a billion...

    Anyhow, that's the 3 biggest clubs in Spain, who hoover up a far bigger percentage of overall football revenue than other top league, and who between them owe €3bn+, with another €1bn+ to be found.

    Over in Italy, Inter's Chinese owners are desperately scrambling to raise €200m of emergency funding just to keep the lights on until the end of the season:
    https://www.ft.com/content/7fdc9a56-...5-bf827a0e7b1d

    Juve, despite winning Serie A every year since Adam was a lad, have lost money for the last 3 years, most recently €234m for a part-Covid season. This is despite selling players at a profit and always qualifying for the CL, a huge source of revenue for them (€449m for the last 5 years). Currently in 4th place, CL qualification for next season is not guaranteed. Their debt is just under €400m, with their total liabilities just over €900m, in short, they are hugely dependent on revenue from the CL and player sales:
    https://www.juvefc.com/analysis-of-j...r-conclusions/

    While AC Milan did appear to be heavily in debt, though it looks as if their US owners may have wiped that? (Unsure).

    Anyhow, with the big Spanish clubs all being in deep doodoo, and the Italian football finance model increasingly falling far behind England and Germany etc, it is obvious why their Big Six are/were desperate for this Superleague to save them.

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  18. #116
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    What football needs is mechanisms to protect clubs from themselves and others in terms of ongoing wages arms races. FFP and wage caps based on club's real ability to generate revenue are vital- not just at the top level but here as well. And where there are investors there should be rules to ensure they invest in the fabric of a club as well as the first team.
    #NeverStopNotGivingUp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Guardian live feed suggesting that the City and Chelsea oligarch owners having interests in their clubs other than profit might not be coincidental to their crumbling; the rest are naked profiteers. Same feed, btw, reveals that Theresa May's former press officer was doing the PR for the dirty dozen. Or, doing it as badly as could be imagined. And coincidentally, Sajid Javid and Chuka Umunna were recently appointed to the bank that was funding the league - so I suspect that Bojo's appetite for taking on the clubs might be tempered a little, given the level of ex-Westminster and especially Tory involvement (even if Javid and Umunna seem to have been peripheral) and now that there seems to be no need for political action. Why antagonise the money markets needlessly just for plebs' votes, after all? I hope I'm wrong.

    I'm originally from Old Trafford. There's no way to express the shame and anger that the club literally a few streets from where I was born, in George Best's last season in the red, could treat this game of ours so despicably. But I don't for one minute think this is the end.
    Just to clarify - Chuka Umunna was a Labour MP - not a Tory.

  20. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightstory View Post
    Just to clarify - Chuka Umunna was a Labour MP - not a Tory.
    He was technically an MP for 3 different parties in the space of about a year, but none of those was the Tories

  21. #119
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    Which is why I put ex-Westminster before Tory - really didn't have time to list Umunna's affiliations! Journeyman pro if ever there was one... But thanks for clarifying in case anyone was confused.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

  22. #120
    Youth Team Kiki Balboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    What football needs is mechanisms to protect clubs from themselves and others in terms of ongoing wages arms races. FFP and wage caps based on club's real ability to generate revenue are vital- not just at the top level but here as well. And where there are investors there should be rules to ensure they invest in the fabric of a club as well as the first team.
    The problem with that is it will make it more competitive , which is also what they dont want.

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