No Rovers in Flancare

[mypost]

Its been happening for years now. How about the time the Rovers supporters bus pulled into the cathedral car park after a game and disgorged its passengers who then went on a rampage through the town, cleaning out the off-licence and terrifying the staff - just one of a number of disgraceful incidents that night!

Most of our fans leave Longford straight after the game, in order to make the last buses home in Dublin, so I can't speak for what happens after games there. As for cleaning out the off-licence, and terrifying the staff, that happens every weekend in most towns in Ireland. It shouldn't happen, but it's hardly new.

Stop blaming our stewards (who are culpable to a minor extent) and sort out your own renegade supporters. Why do Rovers supporters constantly cause trouble? stop blaming us for them.

Rovers fans DON'T constantly cause trouble. Ask the security at Finn Harps, Derry, Drogheda, Waterford and so on, if our fans cause trouble? You'll get a resounding no every time. Their security police the games professionally, are restrained, and the locals are not a bother either. Ask UEFA, who commended our support, when we played in Europe. Ask people of other nationalities when Rovers fans go to support the national side. Any trouble?? No.

Different story at Longford however. Initially, our fans were banned from the Main Stand, then one of the goals was sealed off, then we were restricted to a specific area behind the other goal, then confined to being behind the goal, then not allowed change ends, so the goalposts have being moved with every visit. We don't have problems with Longford fans, and they are rarely if ever involved, it's always your stewards that are behind it all, as their approach to stewarding is aggressive and inflammatory. If, and it's still a big if, we are allowed to watch the game and are policed by our own security, then we know who we're dealing with, i.e. efficient professionals. How come they don't upset Longford fans, when we play yous at home??

If this decision is reversed, it will be a victory for common sense. There may still be some resentment from our fans which is understandable, many of whom are blameless in this mess. In this league, we need to be encouraging people to come to our games, we can't have clubs banning without warning, other teams fans from attending matches because of the actions of a few. I hope the league's image recovers somewhat, but more importantly, I hope that both clubs learn from this.

[Xlex]

Initially, our fans were banned from the Main Stand, then one of the goals was sealed off, then we were restricted to a specific area behind the other goal, then confined to being behind the goal, then not allowed change ends, so the goalposts have being moved with every visit

Without this being communicated in any shape or form...?

Whether our fans are banned or not, the *real* thug element of Rovers supporters who only go to Dalymount away and Inchicore every season now suddenly know which county Longford play in, how to get there and how easy it'll be to cause trouble there.

[color=black]exactly why I expect some level of trouble and to some extent LTFC will have to share a degree of responsibility due to the incitement caused by jumping the gun on issuing a ban and then rescinding it when a reasonable compromise has been agreed upon.[/color]

[Wiseguy]

What a muppet!
I think a certain element of City fans are one of the few people who do "stand up" to Rovers whenever they come to the Cross!


Longford are a joke imo. Their stewards are clowns. They've tried to start aggro with the Rebel Army on a few occasions aswell, trying to make us change ends, stopping people from standing in the aisles, giving out to people for leaning over the wall etc etc etc etc.
The most ridiculous of the lot though is that they don't allow the use of TIFO flags as they are weapons! And guess who they blamed when we questioned this decision.... you got it, the Rovers fans!

I hope Rovers travel in huge numbers now just to **** off the muppets at LTFC.

So by your first sentence you are encouraging retalliation.The best way to deal with incitement by others is not to react and lower yourself to their level.

It's a health and safety issue about standing in the aisles and leaning over the walls.It's suppose to apply in all grounds in all sports.
As regards the TIFO flags i would much sooner see them in the ground but the rules are that they are not allowed so don't bring the fcuking thing.
It's obvious that some of our stewarts are clowns so don't give them a reason to annoy you.All you have to do is sit where your told and obey the rules that are set out in the programme.If you find you are still being victimised then complain to the correct people.

[Éanna]

As regards the TIFO flags i would much sooner see them in the ground but the rules are that they are not allowed so don't bring the fcuking thing.

What rules? Longfors'd insane petty rules- thats what. They're allowed in everyother ground in the country, including Landsdowne, but not flancare- why? I've asked stewards about this up there and they say its the FAI told them to ban them- the FAI say that's bull, and for once I believe the FAI.

[town73]

Rovers fans to be allowed in: www.longfordtownfc.com

[Frank 99er]

Glad to hear a compromise has been reached. Though I think the situation could have been handled more rationally, I believe there is still a big problem that needs addressing. Rovers FC have a big responsibility to identify and prevent the trouble-making individuals (probably at most 100 people) from attending games. It seems highly unlikely that they don't know who they are. If this requires rovers security travelling to all away games, then so be it. I'd imagine The Town's initial reaction to ban all SR supporters was an attempt to get SRFC to assume some responsibility for the problem. I'd also guess that they knew that the ban wouldn't be enforced, but it was important that the problem was highlighted again.

[Colm]

All you have to do is sit where your told.

Are you taking the p!ss?

[dfx-]

Rovers fans DON'T constantly cause trouble. Ask the security at Finn Harps, Derry, Drogheda, Waterford and so on, if our fans cause trouble? You'll get a resounding no every time. Their security police the games professionally, are restrained, and the locals are not a bother either.

The problem that Longford has brought on themselves by even remotely thinking of this idea is that:

Maybe not this Saturday, maybe not the next Saturday, but some Rovers match in Longford in the near future, there really will be uncontrollable scenes.

This is because they have brought to everyone's attention that they just can't cope with the Rovers fans like Finn Harps or Derry or Cork etc. The real thugs get put off by long distance matches where there's no chance for anything *exciting* to happen. That's why you see them at Bohs and Pats. It's close and easy to ignite.

Longford really will regret this original decision. If they thought that the usual Rovers away fans that go to Flancare were bad, they won't know what is coming to them.

[dcfcsteve]

Whether our fans are banned or not, the *real* thug element of Rovers supporters who only go to Dalymount away and Inchicore every season now suddenly know which county Longford play in, how to get there and how easy it'll be to cause trouble there.

I suspect they might be paying a visit soon to test what the fuss is about..

Any chance your club might try to do something about them then ? Like identify them and ban them ? Any chance your many, many ordinary decent fans might try to stop them ? Or at least help identify them ?

Or is the league going to continue to be saddled with a small minority intent on wreaking havoc whenever they can, with Rovers only response being to blame everyone else for it.... ?

The bottom line is that - like certain English clubs - Shamrock Rovers has rightly or wrongly got a bad reputation for attracting a thug element. However - unlike those certain English clubs, Rovers has done nothing of any substance to address this....

[dfx-]

Banning them after identifying is not a plausible option. The people involved at that level don't regard that as a deterrent. These guys don't hold any respect for 'threats' like that - in fact they will actually try and test it by trying to get in. You'd never solve the problem. Missing out on a game is no incentive for them to stop.

How are decent fans to stop them? They are a law onto themselves unfortunately. How do you go about stopping a fellow fan from such actions at a ground in the heat of the moment?

I'm afraid these guys can't simply be removed from the club 'just like that'. You have to make it so that there is no incentive for them to go the match in the first place. Places like Derry, UCD, Bray, Ballybofey etc. provide this lack of incentive naturally. The most dangerous Rovers crowd are the away games at Dalymount and particularly Inchicore. These are the games where security needs to be visible but clever. The brute force mentality of Longford stewards or the Gardai in the past - Tolka against Bohs last year comes to mind - just will not work.

All you have to do is sit where your told.

I'm afraid that attitude is precisely the wrong way to go about dealing with them. How about order people to stay seated when their team scores as well? Prevents flares...minimises bus ticket rolls ....if you dictate, people will rebel. If you're not allowed in the ground, more people will come to the ground - a case in point.

In order to solve the problem, you look at the cause. You have to accept that there are going to be thugs in the Rovers' support at certain grounds against certain teams. The problem are the thugs - there's no getting away from that. The cause is more difficult.

You take on the thugs, they fight back and the vicious circle continues. That circle has turned over and over for years. You look at each match and you ask yourself "what is the most likely reason that these fans will riot tonight?"

And you stop that reason from occurring.

[mypost]

Banning them after identifying is not a plausible option. The people involved at that level don't regard that as a deterrent. These guys don't hold any respect for 'threats' like that - in fact they will actually try and test it by trying to get in. You'd never solve the problem. Missing out on a game is no incentive for them to stop.I'm afraid these guys can't simply be removed from the club 'just like that'. The most dangerous Rovers crowd are the away games at Dalymount and particularly Inchicore. These are the games where security needs to be visible but clever. The brute force mentality of Longford stewards or the Gardai in the past - Tolka against Bohs last year comes to mind - just will not work.

In order to solve the problem, you look at the cause. You have to accept that there are going to be thugs in the Rovers' support at certain grounds against certain teams. The problem are the thugs - there's no getting away from that. The cause is more difficult.

You take on the thugs, they fight back and the vicious circle continues. That circle has turned over and over for years. You look at each match and you ask yourself "what is the most likely reason that these fans will riot tonight?"

And you stop that reason from occurring.

How should the club go about banning fans? When they behave themselves, these so-called "thugs" are like normal fans. They brighten up games with their colour, flags, noise, and atmosphere. Trouble usually happens when they are, for want of a word, confronted, e.g. by baits from opposition fans, players celebrating goals in front of them, aggressive security guards/gardai etc, and that combined with alcohol, can provoke confrontation. Most of us acknowledge that all the above is part and parcel of going to games, but a certain element take it personally, and set about doing "something" about it. They number 20-25 at most. I've witnessed near-riots in Tolka, Turners Cross, and other grounds, when opposition players celebrate in front of our fans.

The club does acknowledge that there is a rogue element among our fans, and the club has tried to ban fans from home games in the past. But the problem then is, even if we ban them from home games, we can't ban them from away games, as the club has no control over who goes to them. And in our current financial state, the club is simply in no position to turn away any fans from home games, for any reason, whether they have a reputation or not. The security authorities at the game have to do something constructive about it at the time, and then the club can do something about it. But often nothing is done, the vicious circle continues, and the reputation that ALL Rovers fans get, sticks.

There is trouble at Inchicore occasionally, but there is regular trouble at Bohs-Rovers games, whether they be in Dalymount, Tolka, Richmond or wherever. Both sets of fans go actively looking for it. It's the only fixture in the NL, where gardai are clad in riot gear, with dogs, and horses etc. Even those precautions are not necessary adequate, when alcohol is a major factor in violence. Until the game is moved to a Saturday afternoon kick-off, the status quo at that game will continue.

The original decision taken by Longford, was a mindless assault on the civil liberties of ordinary, decent NL fans. Thankfully, it has been reversed. Longford had the sense to recognise their mistake, ...just in time.

[Wiseguy]

SRFC should look after their own fans.They should make every effort in the world to rid the club of the thug element.Instead it's the same old story over and over again.They made us do it,it was someone elses fault.Some of the remarks made above appear to be warnings.You should be more concerned about proving the club wrong be doing your best to make sure there is no trouble instead of coming on here and saying that we're in for it now.
The EL should apply rules where away fans stay in a designated area.If away fans cause bother they should be footed with the bill for the damage they cause.Fined a few thousand euro and made foot the bill for any extra security which maybe required for them after the incident.X amount of tickets should be issued to the visiting teams supporters club so they can ensure that the tickets will be only issued to the ordinary decent fan.The English made a huge effort to rid their game of this and have succeeded very well.They have proper and clear rules for all sets of supporters and it works.Why we can't do the same is beyond me.

[Macy]

The English made a huge effort to rid their game of this and have succeeded very well.They have proper and clear rules for all sets of supporters and it works.Why we can't do the same is beyond me.

Do you think it's gone from England? It's gone from the grounds alright, through proper policing and stewarding - all of which are lacking in this country unfortunately (not just in Longford, and not just in football either - look at the May Day protest a few years ago for the gardai's idea of crowd control).

[Wiseguy]

I know violence still exists outside of football grounds in the UK and that a lot of this violence is actually organised between rival sets of supporters but the problem we have involves a real small group and is not a huge problem at the moment so it can be stamped out if everyone joins in to stop it.I know stewarting is not adequate and the cops wouldn't put out a match but as i said if everyone makes an effort it can be stamped out before it gets to serious.

[dfx-]

but as i said if everyone makes an effort it can be stamped out before it gets to serious.

I'm afraid that's too romantic a notion to work. Ah if everyone pulls together, then we will beat them.

No.

The way to stop Rovers fans is stop what causes them to cause trouble. At Inchicore, the biggest problem are the 3 and 4 year old Pats' fans who run on to the pitch towards the Rovers end when they beat Rovers. They run to them, Rovers react. Rovers win a match at Pats, they leave early and nothing happens. This is no coincidence.

Cork is another example - some treat Rovers fans as pariahs when they come to Turners Cross. Rovers react. Why have a Kilcoyne banner? What has tha tgot to do with friendly rivalry? Longford - harsh stewarding means Rovers fans won't put up with that sort of treatment and will react.

Rather than stopping the problem in these cases, stop the ridiculous stewarding - easy to do?, stop the offensive banners - there's no permanent reference to other clubs in Rovers banners, stop the kids from running to the Rovers fans, getting access to the Rovers exit in Inchicore up the hill, where the stones have be thrown in the past. Move the Bohs fans out quicker - simple step? Stop Ollie Byrne from hitting the Rovers manager, you stop the chants during the match.

Stop that and you will stop Rovers from reacting. You stop Rovers fans from reacting, you give the thugs no incentive to go watch the match, particularly since we are bottom.

But then again, the romantic opinion of everyone pulling together is much more palettable to so many.

[Bosco]

You're unbelievable you know that.You are basically saying that it is everyone elses fault that YOUR fans cause trouble.I understand what you are saying about them being provoked and then react.
"The biggest problem are the 3 and 4 year old pats fans" Im going to print this out and read it over and over again,this is the most ridiculous sentence i have ever read on this forum.Are you really putting trouble in inchicore down to this???If your fans cant ignore being provoked and walk away from it then they shouldn't be at your football matches.If your a football fan,you are going to be provoked,deal with it.So other clubs should stop their fans slagging ye so the thugs in your suport,dont have a reason to react.
You say you cant ban these fans from away matches,have they been banned from your home matches??If they can be banned from home matches,why not away?All your games are away games anyway.Get pictures of them,have someone at the entrance(rovers fans usually have their own entrance) and dont let them in,easy no?And if any of your fans act up at any match,whats to stop you hardcore fans from stopping them.The linfield fans did it down in flancare and then started to boo their own fans.If rovers fans can start something like the 400 club and do what they've done for the good of their club,surely they can finally stop their hooligan element and put to bed their reputation and show the league they really are the best in the league.

[Éanna]

I'm afraid that's too romantic a notion to work. Ah if everyone pulls together, then we will beat them.

No.

The way to stop Rovers fans is stop what causes them to cause trouble. At Inchicore, the biggest problem are the 3 and 4 year old Pats' fans who run on to the pitch towards the Rovers end when they beat Rovers. They run to them, Rovers react. Rovers win a match at Pats, they leave early and nothing happens. This is no coincidence.

Cork is another example - some treat Rovers fans as pariahs when they come to Turners Cross. Rovers react. Why have a Kilcoyne banner? What has tha tgot to do with friendly rivalry? Longford - harsh stewarding means Rovers fans won't put up with that sort of treatment and will react.

Rather than stopping the problem in these cases, stop the ridiculous stewarding - easy to do?, stop the offensive banners - there's no permanent reference to other clubs in Rovers banners, stop the kids from running to the Rovers fans, getting access to the Rovers exit in Inchicore up the hill, where the stones have be thrown in the past. Move the Bohs fans out quicker - simple step? Stop Ollie Byrne from hitting the Rovers manager, you stop the chants during the match.

Stop that and you will stop Rovers from reacting. You stop Rovers fans from reacting, you give the thugs no incentive to go watch the match, particularly since we are bottom.

But then again, the romantic opinion of everyone pulling together is much more palettable to so many.

so its all our fault?! You have to be taking the ****! Sorry now, but that is the greatest load of tripe I've seen. I've defended Rovers in the past and continue to do so, on this issue especially, but what you're saying is laughable. The fact that there is violence at rovers games IS your responsibility, and it IS up to rovers as a club and their fans to sort it out. Its not nice, its not easy and its not pleasant, but if you want to do it, you can. As for the banners issue: you stop chanting sheep-shaggers at us, and we won't do the banners etc etc etc Cop on FFS

[dfx-]

It seems like people have got the wrong impression here.

I am not condoning any violent action by any Rovers 'supporter'. I have been at many a Rovers match where the actions of Rovers fans are irreprehensible. The fights in the RDS with Bohs, the open punch up in Tolka with Pats fans in the Riverside Stand in about '96ish. The machete wielding outside Richmond. I know and remember all these such incidents well because it shames me as a Rovers supporter.

When Rovers fans really go for it, then there is no stopping them! No stewards. No hardcore support. No police. Nothing.

YOU CANNOT REMOVE THAT MENTALITY FROM CERTAIN SUPPORTERS. It will always be there. Do you think it's the same supporters that were involved in the scarf burning etc. under the Anglesey Stand in the RDS against Bohs - which was reciprocated - in the early 90s as was involved in the latest scandal?! Another group take on the baton, so to speak. If you remove one bunch another will replace it.

Longford have attracted these thugs' attentions to the problems they have dealing with Rovers fans because of their OWN actions. I will not accept, despite all the faults of these 'fans', any overreactions, exaggerations and discrimination.

Eanna, if you are trying to compare a relatively painless jibe to the calling a 'man' who destroyed a club as their hero - just to rile Rovers; just to get at Rovers; out of spite, then you are taking the ****. You can call us anything under the sun, but not that - there is no comparison and for you to try and compare that is shameful beyond anything I could say.

Such flags are like a red rag to a bull. You take away that flag, that 'red rag', that spite and the violence is less likely to happen. The bull won't charge - the violence will not happen.

If the Longford stewards behave professionally - we've all the stories we need about them - then nothing happens! If they behave like the Derry stewards or the Finn Harps stewards - for mere example - then nothing happens. The Derry stewards are praised by the Rovers supporters and to quote Jim Roddy "We haven't had trouble for 6 or 7 years".

Despite the fact we've been hammered up there and we've conceded enough late goals to Liam Coyle that I can't remember, nothing has happened. That is because nothing incites Rovers fans. They just walk away. Nothing happens like runnning on the pitch, like stupid stewarding and no violence happens despite the fact that on paper with this reputation that Derry would be a likely trouble spot.

Have any people asked why it's certain grounds that there's a problem? Like Longford? Why Longford and not Derry, FinnHarps, Bray, Waterford, Drogheda, Dundalk, UCD, Shels? Why Longford, Dalymount and Inchicore? The same fans that go to all these places are only problems are at 3-4 grounds? Why is it that the same much vaunted fans that go and be officially recommended and commended by UEFA in Europe only have trouble in Cork, Longford, Dalyer and Richmond? They are the same travelling group except for Bohs and Pats. I suppose we started the fight in Sweden when Djurgardens fans were attacked by malicious insipid Rovers fans, eh?

They suddenly spontaneously erupt - without incitement - at these grounds?

Do they?

I have never known such an tense atmosphere at a ground like what I ahve experienced at a Rovers/Pats match. But I suppose that again is all to do solely with Rovers and Pats fans can be exonerated because ah sure isn't the same auld story with those Rovers fans?

How come the Ollie Byrne banner gets taken down because of incitement, but the Kilcoyne banner doesn't? Ah sure isn't the Kilcoyne banner poking a bit of fun at those Dublin lads?

Get real. Rovers have many black marks to their name which will remain on my conscience for one, but to try and simplify the situation to the extent of 'that's Rovers' problem and make them deal with it on their own' is what is truly laughable.

[Éanna]

Get real. Rovers have many black marks to their name which will remain on my conscience for one, but to try and simplify the situation to the extent of 'that's Rovers' problem and make them deal with it on their own' is what is truly laughable.

It IS up to rovers to deal with it, thats the simple fact. Like i've said, I have defended rovers and will continue to do so because I accept a lot of what you're saying. As for the banner- it was there to wind people up and it succeeded. A lot of Cork people (not me) took the "Roy Keane is a traitor" song very personally. How about the time when Rovers fans held up the names of all the Cork clubs that have died over the years? Was that not personal? Get over it. There have been other banners involving other clubs that haven't resulted in this hassle- why can they take it and rovers can't? Fans will try and wind opponents up, its part of the fun. the more you can wind the opposition up the better. The line MUST be drawn at violence and racism. Unfortunately, every club has idiots who cross one or other of those lines, and the fact is that Rovers appear to have more of these idiots than other clubs. Yes Rovers are unfairly stigmatised. Yes it is blown out of proportion. Yes the vast majority of Rovers fans are decent people. But the fact is, your club has a problem and its up to your club to deal with it. I'm sick of getting odd looks from fellow city fans when I say things like "Rovers aren't that bad", "most Rovers fans are ok" etc., only to get a text during the game saying that there's hassle at a rovers game and face the looks from those people afterwards when word spreads. The first step to sorting out your problem is to admit you have the problem. I wish SRFC the very best of luck in fixing the problem and getting your house in order to re-establish Rovers as one of the biggest clubs in this country, but you MUST sort this out and stop blaming others for it.

[dfx-]

You see, Eanna it is not that simple. I am not blaming others and pretending Rovers are innocent. Rovers are at fault. But it is not just their fault.

I am a law-abiding Rovers supporter. However I would be sorely tempted to confront that first class idiot who made that flag. If I would, what do you think the reaction of 'less aware' thugs would be?

It is a process of many stages.

Rovers fans get in the ground
|
A
|
B
|
C
|
D
|
Violence occurs.

There are plenty of points where this process can be stopped before violence occurs even with the thugs in the ground.

This is where other clubs come in. Their security. Their security policy towards Rovers i.e. Derry v. Longford's policy.

A would be where the initial event happens. The flag, the fans runnning towards towards the Rovers end etc. B is the Rovers fans reaction. C is where the security policy comes in - how they deal with the Rovers reaction. D is the committal by both sides to continue - the fans to continue to walk up to them, the flag staying up etc.

Then violence occurs. You see there are many places where violence can stopped along the way - it doesn't just erupt into violence.

There are many places where other clubs if they do their job properly can stop all problems. Whereas this current way you leave Rovers wit han impossible job.

As the thugs of the early 90s grow up, a new batch come in and run down the SchoolEnd of Dalyer etc. When they grow up, the next batch come wielding their weapons outside Richmond.

It's a continuum that cannot be halted - there will always be a thug element in Rovers who will want to cause trouble. If other clubs prevent it at their ground by stopping the process at some stage, then nothing happens! Less thugs are attracted to Rovers and after a season or two of quiet games, they drift off, seeing no chink of light in the League's armour against them.

So it is not as simple as Rovers have to deal with it. Some clubs are further down the road to realising this than others.

I am not blaming others for it, but if others take the draconian line that Longford did for even a split second last week, then they the bring the problem of some of our supporters to themselves.