Just looking at this piece from the beginning of 2020..
So far, of the 20 for 20.. eight of these players have now played senior international games under Kenny.. nearly half the ones to watch. These are all kids.. only starting out on their football careers, never mind senior international careers
A few more will be hoping to make breakthroughs in the next two to three years.. Obafemi.. Afolabi.. another not on the list is Barry Coffey at Celtic.. John Patrick Finn, who's already playing La Liga at 17..
The misfortune that Kenny may have, is he could end up being the manager who bloods practically a whole new squad, simply to hand it over to someone else just as they are on the cusp of a real breakthrough
We keep talking about "developing players".. development takes time.. it could be the 26 World Cup.. even the 2030 World Cup, when these players are between 26-30... absolute in their prime before we get to really see what they are worth
But we're still screaming for "results right now".. while all the time preaching "development"
To many Irish fans are like those parents who nod their heads at the clubs Child Welfare Course.. and then go back out Saturday morning screaming at children and muttering under their breath about what a "useless f**ker that young lad is"...
Yeah.. we should probably have beaten Luxembourg... but if the team bonds in adversity, maybe it might not have been the worst thing that could have happened
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019...ready-to-rise/
First half was decent, second half we ceded the game to them. Qatar are a half-decent side and were cutting us up at times even when we were on top, but you'd be disappointed to give away a lead like that. Bazunu made a couple of bad errors but he more of less got away with them, which suggests he may have the most important thing for a keeper, luck.
This was such a good post, do I agree with it all - no, but even the parts that I don't, it's a case of "it's a decent point there to be fair!". Really summed up a lot how I was feeling pre-game. I would always try to play down the negatives and promote the positives, no matter how bad things were. I couldn't see us not beating Luxembourg - not because of them or their recent record - but because of us.Originally Posted by passinginterest
I wonder why aren't doing things differently. There's another thread on Euro U21s vs Euro 20. I choose 21s. I've constantly banged on about the youth squads, and the crucial mistakes we were making - ignoring the 21s - it's an absolutely pivotal age group in terms of developing a national team - and we've ignored it for generations. We have to stop making the same mistakes over and over and over again.
I put a post up here somewhere else which highlighted the inadequacies of the players we're currently selecting - but it's like that's an irrelevance!
these are some of the positions on this thread before the game:
BOOMSHAKALAKA (https://foot.ie/threads/265611-Qatar...=1#post2071614) supported by Diggs and zero to a degree hammering Kenny, with a balanced riposte by neverfeltbetter. BOOM then doubles down, with insidetherock giving an interesting an accurate comment about being 'damned if he does, damned if he doesn't' supported by TonyD. Bungle's critical because Kenny doesn't go all billy-big-balls to the begrudgers.
Then in the game itself, nobody picks up on the role Molumby played in the goal, or the fact that it is clearly a training ground move. We've looked really really good from defensive set pieces over this window, minus Duffy shock horror, and this was a beautiful goal. Not everything has to be an outswinger for the giant to head down. We've wasted far too much possession in the past 4 years on that. And on Molumby, tonight he solves exactly the problem that almost everyone complained about for the past 10 yrs, with a midfielder receiving the ball, and having the courage of his convictions to turn, move into space and use the ball positively, but nare a comment. We see recognition of Long's woeful inadequacy in front of goal - just about - but that's ok because as a 34 yr old he runs teams ragged. Funny how Aaron Connolly didn't get quite so much leniency against Serbia, despite actually running himself into the ground, and being on the receiving end of a legitimate penalty appeal? Insidetherock and tommy then come to the rescue.
After the game, Straightstory then questions the hype of Parrot, and where has it come from, and that **** it, he may not worry about Ireland anyway, as his career is going to tank through the Divisions - I guess he may just sign for Sherrif YC next season, and get it over with soon sure? Thankfully someone points out that he's actually only 19 (and has been injured). Eirambler pretty much consolidates that point, equating it with Stokes (Difference being is that Stokes was actually a lauded Wunderkind at 13, not 19).
This is a really good assessment of the game, and is balanced and fair. The Bazunu analysis notes the deficiencies in the game that are clear as day, but also highlights what would appear -to me anyway- to levitate him above Travers, and that's confidence. The boy does not appear to have any fear. Travers by contrast looked as nervous as young Kingdom did when he first got his hands down Ms. Kingdom's panties all those years ago. And that counts for a lot, a hell of a lot. For god sake, Stu points out that there's no surprise that he's conceding two goals a game in L1 with Rochdale - but didn't Travers concede 3 in one game just last week?
But the posts on the thread post-game is a synopsis of what really ****es me off when people watch Ireland. Nobody, not once, mentions that its another variation on the system that we've played. We had a back 3 - fine; wing-backs - fine; but everything else was different. We didn't have three pressing players, we had a generally central box of 4 behind Shane Long: a sitting two (Molumby and Hendrick) and a pressing two (Horgan and Brady). This allowed the two wing-backs to be much more aggressive in their positions and how they engaged on the pitch, and resulted in us being able to press higher as a team, and being able to work formations in the different quadrants on the pitch.
And generally speaking, in the first half it worked. We were more energetic, we got our better attacking players into the final third of the pitch, and we looked really comfortable on the ball most of the time, and were able to attack down both sides of the pitch and look dangerous, while being relatively settled at the back.
And in Jason Molumby we have a gem of a player, and it really bugs me that there isn't enough appreciation of it. I saw him being critically analysed about all he does wrong after Serbia by an LOI analyst on twitter, then heard Brady's "he only fouls people" line, which curried favour with a few on here. Yet for all of this, he's a 22 yr old Preston sub, and when he went off against Serbia, our midfield disappeared. And in the first half tonight he was superb. He prevented them from coming through us, he won ball, he retained possession in tight spots, and crucially he is not afraid to look for the ball, or to give the ball in areas where we would normally hoof.
Even when we do things wrong, we're all eager to point the finger in one direction (travers vs Serbia, Cullen/mf vs Lux). even tonight one mate mentioned it was Molumby, as did "Karen" on RTE [the same Karen who blamed Molumby for poor-decision making against Lux (fundamental problem there Karen)]. The goal was a calamity from start to finish. McClean jumps for a header that he was never winning, and takes himself our of the game - Dara O'Shea gets dragged out covering, has to tackle and gets taken out of the game, Jeff Hendrick makes a really shoddy effort to challenge and doesn't particularly bust a gut getting caught ahead of the play. Molumby has slotted in to cover DOS, and Duffy is too late to meet the attacker, gets slipped too easily and Molumby absolutely doesn't close down the shot quick enough. That's 5 players who perfrom poorly through a move, and we concede. That's just poor all round.
When we're being critical of the manager, of the players, or of the tactics, we've got to be cognisent of what's being tried by the manager. And it's linked to the other thread on development. We have one absolutely huge problem in our team, and in our squad. We have not got one player who is indispensible to their club side, and crucially, we've not got one attacking player who is the cog in their club side. And it's arguable that we've not had one since Wes retired. This is a massive problem, because it means that when we're in trouble, when we need to dig something out, the players who are used to having other players do it for them at club level, now have to shoulder that responsibility themselves. And therein lies Parrott, Idah and Connolly - and in my opinion what Kenny is possibly trying to do at MNT level.
We're now seeing the first wave of players coming through from the RDP and the emerging talent squads. These guys all know each other inside out, they know who are the leaders, and who the go to players are. and this comes back to a post I've thanked (possibly osarusan's) - Kenny may not be the best manager for IE going forward, and it may still get worse, before we turn a corner. But with the gaping hole that we have in the age profile of the squad (Alan Browne aside), Randolph. Duffy, Hendrick, Brady, Long, McClean - they're gone, they'll not be of any use for Euro 2024.
Kelleher, Bazunu, travers, DOS, Knight, Molumby, Parrott, Connolly, Idah - that's the core that we are going to be relying on from Sept 2022 onwards. so that if/when Connell, Noss, Finn, Watson, Collins, Omabademele, McGuinness break into the senior squad, that those lads are ensconced and know what way we play, what style we have, and what the culture is. And it will play dividends eventually. And the great thing is that with a bit of patience, and a bit of perspective - it may not be Kenny that ultimately presides over such a breakthrough, or reaps the benefits, likelihood is that it won't be - but we'll all enjoy it a bit more.
If you ignore the talk of changing how we play - and the bitterness that could fester inside some of the older players - we absolutely were going to have to overhaul the squad, because it wasn't getting us where we needed to be, and is only getting older. Kenny's hamstrung at the moment in terms of squad selection, and I reckon he'll be much happier after this window in terms of the squad - he will know what works, what doesn't, and who works and who doesn't.
He's gone from a 433 (or a variety on it), to a 352 and then to a 3421, without it being hugely effective in a positive sense on our play, but nor has it been destructive to us either. A positive is that the personnel took to it pretty well across all 3 games. Fading in games is an issue. In all 3 games we were in relatively secure positions at half-time in each, and then crumbled. That absolutely has to be addressed.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
It wasn't - clearly. Jeff Hendrick doesn't deserve to be in this Irish team. He's a senior player now, and should be leading by example, but simply doesn't. For one of the most athletic players in the PL, he has been underwhelming for Ireland for a long time, and his form of 2016 and early 2017 is well in the rear-view mirror.
Shane Duffy played well tonight, in a game that was important for his own personal pride. Taking him out of the game against Serbia was the right decision. Seamus has played very well as the RCB, and Serbia away is the type of game DOS is going to need for experience. That will have done him the world of good.
As for Long - nobody mentions the sitter he missed tonight?
of course we're desperate for green shoots - but perhaps you're not being yourself regarding the wilfully ignoring mistakes: no reference to Shane's absolute horror miss, or the stinker of a second half by Cyrus. brady was on the pitch fro the guts on 20 mins!
You're absolutely wrong about Molumby tonight. He was up there with Dara O'Shea and Seamus as our best player.
Exactly!!! Again, it sort of comes back to this thing on this forum where there's no middle ground. there's no acknowledgement that some parts of a players performance can be good, while parts can be bad.
Troy has the footballing brain and skillset to be our most pivotal player for the next decade. He needs luck, he needs to be focussed and he needs a few things to go his way. IMO, the Robbie Keane comparisons are stupid. The Stokes comparison is actually closer. That went off the rails pretty quickly, and the same absolutely could happen. I've seen him a few times underage and he's beautiful to watch. Personally, I wouldn't play him as the 9 - tonight was a needs must - I'd play him as a 10, and the propsect of himself Connolly and AN Other playing behind an Idah, Kayode or Afolabi (or a worzel gummage who can score -take your pick) is something to look forward to.
It's got to be remembered that he's had his own injuries to deal with, he has grown a good bit too, and his first proper loan move was hampered by an injury in the first weeks. Like most of these guys, summer will be important, and we'll know pretty well by the end of 22 season where we stand.
Beautiful. I agree completely.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I don't think he played nine tonight though, did he? I thought he and Horgan were sitting behind Long.
I watched the game late today. I haven't gone through the thread. I haven't fully made my mind up on what I actually think, but I have one thought that's front and center.... we have probably created more chances in the last 3 games than the entire last campaign. Can some of these players start putting the effin ball in the effin net FFS.
Yeah Kenny might be the wrong man but it's getting ridiculous now the amount of great chances players are missing
bit better performance. I liked the way we mixed it up a bit more with balls down the line and diagonal balls. This is where we are stronger even if the tippy tappy purists don't agree with it.
Thought some of the returning veterans did well and showed there is still life in them yet.
I cant understand why we insist on kicking all our goal kicks very short. surely there is merit in hitting the odd one long if for no other reason than keeping the opposition guessing?
This. It drove me demented last night. Long's effort in the first half. Robinson not getting it on target when the keeper was at sea. Christie with a few half chances and one in the second half where he snatched at it with his much weaker left leg. Cullen with the backpost header towards the end.
So many chances that were wasted or that didn't even threaten the keeper. And if McClean's one didn't go in- which it may well not have if the deflection went elsewhere- then the noise would be so loud.
I know a lot of our players don't have international goals under their belts and may not be prolific at club level but there have been so many chances that a proficient footballer should be doing better with.
And it all started in similar fashion in Slovakia. And even against Luxembourg on Saturday night, it was a trailing right leg of the keeper that kept out Collins' early effort.
I thought otherwise - he seemed defensive and stressed. We certainly didn't need the spruiking of his LOI and U23 glory - it only served those who consider him out of his depth. It's a tough gig, but when you deliver probably the worst result in Irish football history, you must know you need to do better.
To the last 16 in Europe, amazing stuff..........
Showed a bit of fight at the end = = Can’t Hurt.
Yes, and nothing I saw in the two games has really changed my mind of that.
The three rushes of blood - coming to the corner of the box against Luxembourg, and clobbering the Qatar guy outside the box and coming to the edge of the box to drop the ball - were all in the howler category for me. They could very easily have cost goals - that they didn't was nothing to do with him - and they were the sort of things that would put the jitters into your own defence (look at them later on calling him to claim a ball; that's very unusual and maybe indicates a lack of confidence in him, coupled with a welcome willingness to help him along). The two horrible passes out of defence - one in each game - are a lesser category of error. Stutts flagged a positioning error from a free against Luxembourg too. Maybe Dean Kiely as coach would note a smaller positioning error for both goals - which were similar in a way; low drives from 20 yards to the right - but certainly it would be harsh to blame him for either.
But the thing is, he's playing for Rochdale - they're a professional football team and as such it's a decent level. You have to have a lot of stuff right about you to be playing there - you have to have a base level of reflexes, etc. But there's a gap up to the top, and that's why I think with a keeper you have to highlight the rushes of blood, because it's what defines that gap. Arguably we were a bit lucky Qatar didn't threaten much after their equaliser or we may have seen more misjudgements.
Yes, he's 19 and is a big prospect. But there is no way you can conclude his performance from last night in particular was a plus. For me, it was a Kevin Kilbane in Iceland performance (and we know what happened him after that). And there's no harm in being rational about the performance and pointing that out. If it were an opposition keeper, we'd rightly be highlighting it.
Portugal away is six months away and he'll learn a lot between now and then. But I'd be terrified of him in nets for that game. The big goalkeeping pity of the last week is that we didn't get to see Kelleher in nets.
Northern Ireland last qualified for a major tournament in 1986 prior to Michael O Neill taking over. 25 years. Ireland qualified for Euro 2016, 4 years before Kenny took over. The manager prior to Kenny came close to qualifying with the same standard of players. Kenny has driven us backwards. Previous regimes have been widely lambasted as well so for Kenny to have overseen results and performances as bad as we have ever seen in our history, surely some criticism is deserved?
And people keep referring to Kenny being unlucky. In my view, he's one of the luckiest managers we've ever had. What other manager has been given free reign to stay in their job no matter how bad results or performances are? Were people saying Staunton should be given more time to integrate players into his system? Staunton only had 17 matches and he lost fewer games than Kenny has already. And have we even played any top teams? Wales? Serbia are ranked 30th in the world. We played England in a friendly and got humiliated.
Kenny has had fixtures against average to poor opposition and failed to win a single game with scoring very few goals. Any signs of encouragement or things improving have been scant. He turned to the experienced players he had dropped last night to try to get a result. We've lined up Andorra in the summer for him to finally get a win. He will most likely get this group to see how he goes because we can't afford to sack him. Battling it out with Luxembourg and Azerbaijan to see who finishes bottom can't be accepted. We're not the minnows some want to paint us as, we should have qualified for the last tournament and only lost 1 game in that qualifying group.
When he replaced Brady it was behind Long on Christie’s side of the pitch and I think we saw some really good moments from him. Second half, he, like the team generally didn’t offer as much. But when he went “up top” after Long went off, I don’t recall seeing him involved as much, which tbf wasn’t hugely so in the immediate minutes before the substitution - I don’t think?
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
First thing I can think of is that we’re a small team. Even the famous Long salmon reap isn’t winning as much in the air.
Long, Brady, Horgan, Knight, Molumby, Coleman - they’re all under 6ft. Qatar had a couple of miserable streaks of salt playing for them last night.
I’d say the fact that Serbia’s goal came directly from one of our kick outs being punted long won’t have been ignored either.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I actually thought Bazunu's catch and drop on the 18 year line was class. Seamus Coleman(?) thought so too. The other dash was braindead. Even a LSL keeper wouldn't have come for that. But he's a confident lad and wears the jersey well, as if he thinks he belongs. That's important. A nervous keeper affects the defenders. The defenders trust him and that's good start.
Molumby, particularly first half was great. Took the ball in tight spots, pivoted and found nice angled short passes that often led to space being created between Qatar's lines one or two passes later.
O'Shea has looked comfortable at this level since his first game in Finland. Superb player.
Knight looked much better yesterday.
Parrott now has game time but I feel given the spaces and situations he found himself in Jack Byrne would have used the ball better. McGeady certainly would have. But promising enough yesterday.
Long ran the channels well and made himself noticed. I hope Idah was watching.
Christie looks better for Ireland than Doc. Horgan gave the ball away suicidally once but I like what he brings overall.
I think overall our good bits were good, our frustrating bits were frustrating. Long's 1-1 for example. My real time reaction on Cullen's late miss was that he had to score but I took a still photo of the moment of impact: he was a bit further out than I thought, he attacked it well and met it well, accurate and low. But the keeper for some bizarre reason was actually not in the middle of his goal, he was too far too his right and was covering exactly where Cullen hit it. Had Cullen hit it to the keeper's left it was a goal but given the angle of his run that'd have been a didfficult thing to do. That was my take.
Overall last night I thought it was alarming how many chances we shipped from 18-20 yards. Better finishing - think Eriksen's masterclass in Dublin - and that was 3 or 4 goals. But our best bits were quite good. The positives are that Bazunu, O'Shea, Molumby, Connolly and Knight are now almost experienced internationals, Idah and Parrott aren't far behind now. Kelleher and Collins will surely stake claim in the next 12 months.
I liked the end of Kenny's interview yesterday. I hope he turns it around. His situation reminds me of Stephen Bradley at Rovers. Two years ago the fans were just exasperated by him. They were fond of him but thought enough was enough there was no sign of progress. A cup win and league title followed.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 31/03/2021 at 8:39 AM.
Oh come off it, we all know what a horror miss looks like and that wasn't remotely close to one. Good chance, yes, should have scored, probably.
Horror miss is pushing it, fair enough.
But in the context of a team that has struggled for chances, let alone goals, a 1-on-1 with the striker the vast majority of fans have called for to be in the team, is more than a good chance.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
It's certainly indicative of the problems we have up front at the moment. We can't buy a goal. Long was never a great goalscorer, though 17 for the national team is half-decent. Robinson offers little that I've seen. Connolly and Parrott would in usual times be still with the 21s developing, as would Idah if he weren't injured. Curtis and Collins aren't great at international level. Maguire started well for Preston but hasn't kicked on. And that's our choice. It's really not great. And if you can't score, you're in trouble before you start.
Was Hogan discarded too early? Clutching at even more straws I suppose!
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